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It doesn't need to be a "cell" to be terrorism. Here is James Adkisson, who plead guilty (yesterday?) for the Tennessee UU shooting:
He sounds like a crazy loner at first. But then you realize that he was urged on every day by the likes of Hannity, Malkin, Limbaugh, Coulter, Goldberg, and all the other raving right-wing lunatics who are tolerated on our airwaves. They don't come out and tell people to do terrible things. No ... but they walk right up to that line, knowing that there are a few unhinged individuals out there who just might take them seriously.
Nobody in the broad leadership of the left does that. Not Olbermann, not Maddow, not Greenwald, not our political leaders.
That's why almost all the murderous crazies are right-wingers. The right's message is full of well-hidden hate speech, veiled incitements to violence, and dogwhistles that the lunatics can hear.
I know personally ... a guy got fired from my company for sending me a "death wish" fantasy via email. It was exactly what you read here by the winguts: "I hope if the terrorists attack again that your family is a victim." Read Adkisson's first paragraph again - you can read things like that here on C-D, too. How many people did you read here on C-D who were claiming that America itself would cease to exist if we elected Obama? Don't you think that a particularly susceptible "patriot" might act on those claims and do something terrible?
Wake up, righties - your main party is dying, and I bet these terrorist attacks will get more prevalent, rather than less.
OK, am not a 'rightie' nor am I a 'leftie'....perhaps this gives me the ability to see loons on both sides -- and lets face it, plenty of those post on C-D. For every 'if Obama gets elected the US will become a Muslim state' post there was an equal amount of 'Bush will impose martial law to stop the elections' posts. Loons on both sides, I tell ya!
As to the talk radio thing.....I have only recently begun to listen to talk radio -- really only snippets on my way to pick up kids from school. Maybe 10 minutes tops of either Hannity or Laura Ingraham. I have yet to hear any coded hated speech. In fact, Hannity takes calls regularily from people who don't agree with him. Still, I don't listen very much or very long, so if you have evidence of this 'coded hated speech' please show it to me. Not being facetious here, I would really like to know.
But, to blame the actions of assorted nutjobs on the likes of talk radio seems to me to be rather simplistic. Kinda like those moms in the 90's who attempted to make rap/heavy metal lyrics responsible for their childrens anti social behavior. The truth is, some people are nuts. Some people have little to no self control and some people listen to 'voices' in their heads more diligently then the voices on radio. When I read your post, I have to admit that I read it as being a treatise on the need for government censorship via the fairness doctrine. I find that appalling, just as I found the mom brigade going after NWA appalling. Don't like it, don't listen/watch/read it has been the liberal mantra for years -- and they are right!
It's not so much dem or rep but in the case of the white supremacists it's far right wing propaganda that incites them. Black president triumphant, liberals spending all your money - they come up out of their basements into the real world with guns (or dirty bombs) blazing. The guy in Tennessee who shot up the Unitarian Church to cleanse his town of liberals had overdosed on Hannity, Savage and BillO. Im not saying Fairness Doctrine at all, Im just saying it's an example of the effect hate messages have on weak-minded people.
I don't disagree with you when it comes to this group. I think they are morons first, are raised by staunch morons, and then find things to justify their views. The election of a black President is certainly something to spark them. I think the three people you mention would be quick to condemn this guy's action. This guy is more right than any of them and though they may disagree with people on issues, I've never heard any of them give a hate message, though I don't monitor them all that closely.
I don't disagree with you when it comes to this group. I think they are morons first, are raised by staunch morons, and then find things to justify their views. The election of a black President is certainly something to spark them. I think the three people you mention would be quick to condemn this guy's action. This guy is more right than any of them and though they may disagree with people on issues, I've never heard any of them give a hate message, though I don't monitor them all that closely.
I agree, but the general atmosphere created by those three guys and others, and by their program directors, is one that inspires this sort of reaction in extreme cases, and it's deliberately designed this way. The goal is to maintain a constant state of fear and resentment - and ignorance, since they all scoff at other sources of information and in the cases of Sean and BillO dont rely on research and debate skills to make their points but instead consistently on bullying, yelling, knee-jerk jingoism and strawman and ad hominem arguments to "win" - also deliberate as it provides a big vicarious payoff for the audience. You can see the daily talking points and the same means of "argument" trotted out obediently right here on this message board by the faithful. They get shot down, but they paint a pretty clear picture of the imposed mindset. The ones who fly off the edge, and their innocent victims - that's just the attrition rate.
I agree, but the general atmosphere created by those three guys and others, and by their program directors, is one that inspires this sort of reaction in extreme cases, and it's deliberately designed this way. The goal is to maintain a constant state of fear and resentment - and ignorance, since they all scoff at other sources of information and in the cases of Sean and BillO dont rely on research and debate skills to make their points but instead consistently on bullying, yelling, knee-jerk jingoism and strawman and ad hominem arguments to "win" - also deliberate as it provides a big vicarious payoff for the audience. You can see the daily talking points and the same means of "argument" trotted out obediently right here on this message board by the faithful. They get shot down, but they paint a pretty clear picture of the imposed mindset. The ones who fly off the edge, and their innocent victims - that's just the attrition rate.
You're right of course (small r), but I think that "bullying, yelling, knee-jerk jingoism and strawman and ad hominem arguments" have replaced "research and debate skills" as the cultural norm. I think that's a carryover from shows like Rikki Lake and Jerry Springer into the political discussion arena. Prior to the dawn of that era, these guys wouldn't have rated a seat at the table with people like Edward R. Murrow and Walter Cronkite. I think people today imagine those things are legitimate debate skills.
See, now this is weird to me. I don't understand what on Earth prompted this. Some knucklehead could have well caused the deaths of innocent people, and you come in here for the sole purpose of distracting from that fact. Why? Are you offended that we condemn a White Supremacist terrorist, or do you just feel the need to one up everyone?
Can no one in this country discuss anything without pointing the finger at someone else?
Gangs are certainly a problem and sometimes their violent crime spills over into the general neighborhoods that is for sure. You have to understand the difference between "ordinary" violent crime as it were and politically motivated terrorism. Planting a bomb outside a family clinic is a deliberate act of terror with political motives in mind. Ergo it is terrorism while gang members, murders though many of them are, would not be politically motivated and so they would not be classified as terrorists. A terrorist has to do two things 1) he has to be targeting the general population with the goal of creating terror in the general population and 2) their violence needs to be politically motivated. I don't see your average street gang doing that.
Moderator cut: rude His beef is racial, yours is political. I am a "Right-Winger" and have never fired any ammunition/explosives in my life. So much for stereotypes
Also, the hypocracy here is stunning. After 9/11, everyone called for peace and clam and understanding. One loser in his basement with bomb and everyone is doing the typical "OMG Panic" dance. Whenever someone says Muslim=Terrorist, they're slammed, and rightly so. Why should Conservatism be any different?
Last edited by katzenfreund; 02-11-2009 at 09:15 PM..
Moderator cut: rudeHis beef is racial, yours is political.
I am the same as a man who planned mass murder by using a weapon of mass distruction? Up yours, no seriously, up yours. Please show me ANYWHERE where I have ever advocated violence of any sort. You can't because I have never done so.
The same indeed. All you have are false equivalencies which you can't even back up with a logical argument.
As for having a political beef, hell yeah, I have a political beef. The actions of the Republican Party over the last decade have been utterly reprehensible and so I will call a spade a spade and call out their BS when ever I see it. No, this does not mean that every other party is as pure as the driven snow but it does mean one party has been so outside the bounds of reasonable discussion for so long that they're clearly in their own league for abuse and mismanagement of power.
Last edited by katzenfreund; 02-11-2009 at 09:16 PM..
Do you think the Crips, Bloods and MS-13 voted for McCain?
Why is it that folks leave the Aryan Nation, the Hell's Angels, the Pagans, and the mafia off these lists?
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