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No I do not like to see anybody shot but the fact that people are "opening up" on the cops in Oakland does not bother me as much as when normal cops get it in the line of duty. That outfit has pretty much proved itself top be a cabal of thugs and murdering misfits that the normal justice system does not seem to want to deal with.
Who the [MOD CUT] are you/we to make judgments on these individual officers? This is a tragedy beyond comment. Three men who woke up every morning, who went to work for the sole purpose of enforcing the laws that we the people demand that enforce were gunned down in the course of those duties for no reason than object criminality. Like I said, this defies meaningful discussion.
Last edited by Ibginnie; 03-22-2009 at 07:43 PM..
Reason: inapropriate language
First of all, abuse of authority is under no stretch of the imagination acceptable to me, or any citizen in their right mind. This case was not about that, it was about a violent man targeting public servants to avoid justice.
There would be no need for militaristic tactics if militants/ criminals armed with max kill ratio weaponry weren't running around on the streets in the first place. No I have no earthly clue how to keep guns out of the wrong hands, but they ARE in the wrong hands, and you can't expect a police force to ignore that.
The job is to enforce the law, PERIOD. Whatever therapy people need, best they not request it of law enforcement, because that's tough love. The world has any semblence of order to it becuase it's provided for us, WE THE PEOPLE, who instigate or request laws to be drafted. Yes, folks, look in the mirror!!! YOU created the laws via your legislators/ misc representatives.
You don't care for civilization... honest, I don't blame you. I'm pretty sickened by it myself. Go ahead and live rural where life is simpler. Makes perfect sense to me. But interfering with the way cities have to deal with their problems by imposing rural ways... it doesn't work any better than when the reverse is true.
Your problem with authority is your own. Wipe your hinney with my constitution by ignoring the law when it applies to yourself, expect problems. Militants intending to out gun their own city/ county/ state law enforcement have serious issues with paranoia, and I suspect lack the discernment neccessary to be responsible for their 2nd amendment rights. Defend Waco at your peril. Creating an arms race in your own county/ state will only escalate the militarism you claim is your nemesis. You're the author, just like minorities are in their own communities.
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Most cities didn't have police until after the 1850's, many even later. They only became necessary when unpopular (therefore, illegitimate) laws were passed and the government sought to enforce them.
Secondly, in most cases the tactics used are not needed, not justified, and simply escalate the situation. Waco is a perfect example. If Koresh had been confronted in town when he frequently visited it could have been handled easily without so many people killed. The ATF was trying to justify its bloated budget which was being reviewed (rather critically) in Congress at the time. Same with many SWAT teams and such, they want their toys and money so they look for excuses to use the stuff to try to justify getting it. In a lot of cases too the feds send military equipment to police departments. What happened with those cops and that shooter could have happened 150 years ago with cap and ball revolvers.
I won't argue with the fact that this man was dangerous but my point was and is, too many good people have become victims of cops, and for the most part the thin blue line backs up the bad guys with badges.
Mrsykes-- so tell me this-- when there is so much black on black violence going on in a community, and cops MEAN to protect the innocent, how is the black/ hispanic community helping them out when they carry on with passive aggression or protecting criminals?
The racism is instigated by the minorities themselves, in the form of unwarranted distrust of authority. Would they conduct themselves differently, cops might be able to discern better. That presumes anyone wanted to FIX the problems. People in high crime areas prefer to sit in a diaper when a whole other power undermining their freedom establishes dominence? Cops ought to be sitting ducks for their misplaced ire?
I'm getting the impression that not many of you are in tune with mean streets very well. The dynamics are unhealthy, but the root causes have nothing to do with cops, and more with the minority population itself. Lets call it a weakness of esteem that only they can fix.
Haha, I'm not in tune? Just ask anyone who's been unnecessarily manhandled, shot at, taunted, and threatened by the authorities. Or better yet, just ask the friends and relatives of those unnecessarily gunned down by the authorities. Believe me, distrust is earned, and cops have done a fantastic job earning it. It's simple - cops are predators, and I am their prey. Now you can keep your "wallowing in victimhood" BS because it's been already overplayed here. The goal is to not be a victim, especially at the hands of a frustrated and cynical 5-0 who decides that tonight somebody will be "justifiably" executed.
The badge means absolutely nothing to me. Nothing. It may technically require of the wearer to act "according to a higher standard of citizenship" than the rest of us poor defenseless sheep, but whether a cop wants to maintain that standard or act the fool is completely up to him - at any given time. Nothing prevents him from transcending the artificial boundaries of professionalism imposed upon him and to which he gives lip service to a plane of pure and arrant lawlessness, not even the very law he "swears" to protect and uphold. That is truly frightening; indeed, just as (if not more) frightening than what a criminal without a badge is capable of doing.
Every time I get pulled over I fear for my safety, because I know that just one misunderstood command or a brief wipe of the nose could end up costing me my life right there on the spot, especially at night. And somehow, someway, the likes of you would come on here all up in arms ready to defend the actions of the creep who guaranteed me an early exit from this pitiful world we live in.
The racism is instigated by the minorities themselves, in the form of unwarranted distrust of authority. Would they conduct themselves differently, cops might be able to discern better.
How do you know if its "instigated" by the "minorities themselves", do you live in these lower end, often subsidized, largely black communities? Do you know about the harsh drug sentences that single out crack users (blacks) over cocaine users (often white)?
They also feel unfairly targeted. The "DWB" (Driving While Black) charge is often the reason they get pulled over. When you see that the justice system discriminates against you, where does it reason you start having respect for laws that are often unfairly enforced?
No I do not like to see anybody shot but the fact that people are "opening up" on the cops in Oakland does not bother me as much as when normal cops get it in the line of duty. That outfit has pretty much proved itself top be a cabal of thugs and murdering misfits that the normal justice system does not seem to want to deal with.
Aren't you guilty of the very profiling those of your ilk are always bellyaching about? Do you have proof these 4 cops are crooked and thus deserved to be mowed down? If the cops had managed to waste this dirtbag before getting shot, you'd be on here screeching about brutality. The fact he could take out four actually shows the police may have been too handcuffed by unrealistic rules of engagement, especially in a war zone like Oakland.
And why isn't Al Sharpton and other profiteers in the race hustling industry rushing out to Oakland to deplore this violence? Why no candle-lit vigils from the fine residents of the city to support those good cops who are trying to protect them? Oh, that's right. It's just four dead white cops. Nothing to see here. Move along everyone.
I've seen enough innocent people's lives ruined or taken by cops, and while it may be "bad apples" the "good" ones not only frequently turn a blind eye to it but help in covering it or supporting the bad ones. And with the increasingly militaristic training style of cops and more and more use of SWAT teams, it's getting worse and worse. Cops have themselves to blame for my having no sympathy or respect for them.
Precisely. Many of those creeps would rather keep their silence (thus rendering their tacit approval) when one of their own f's up rather than stand up for what's right. If they were so brave why don't they risk their cozy little pensions and go against the grain for once when they know a wrong has been committed at the hands of someone they serve with. That would be truly heroic. But see it'll never happen in the world of the self-absorbed and hypocritical that is the PD. I don't care how "well-intentioned" a cop might portray himself to be, he'll never go against his own, which in the grand scheme of things makes him just as guilty as the individual benefiting from the department-wide cover up. It's nothing more than an extended "stop snitchin'" campaign 5-0 style.
Misattribute blame to the victims of crime (the cops)
the criminal (convicted on assault, warrant active) is the hero (?)
It's ok to bash all cops because there are some bad apples in there somewhere, but when that same mentality is applied to minorities, it's brutality?????
All cops are jackboots
criminals aren't accountable for anything
Over zealous attempts to prove your points, you have each (left and right) justified the abuse of prisoners, made racial attacks, revealed an appalling lack of respect for those who do serve and protect earnestly, and each espouse their own brand of violence based on retribution.
How many of you would commit yourselves to insisting justice be served IAW vs the vigilantism I'm hearing from all sides? Would there be so many jackboots on a police force, it should become evident early on when civilian complaint boards keep flagging the same characters. Unless y'all would rather whine... ?
I think every single one of you is pathetic beyond belief. Shame to dishonor these fallen cops. Shame.
Every single one of us? Boy aren't we sooooo special! I used to have some respect for your posts until a broad (in both senses of the word) brush was used to paint "every single one of us". I guess delusions of self grandure appear in your mirror.
Last edited by jimj; 03-22-2009 at 06:55 PM..
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I used to have some respect for your posts until a broad (in both senses of the word) brush was used to paint "every single one of us". I guess delusions of self grandure appear in your mirror.