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Old 05-05-2009, 01:42 PM
 
42,732 posts, read 29,930,284 times
Reputation: 14345

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Glitch View Post
It is called "Free Speech", you might consider the concept sometime. After all, our Founding Fathers added special protections in our US Constitution specifically to protect the individual's right to say something you find objectionable.

Or are you one of those fascist wannabes that want every thought and concept run past you for your approval before they are uttered? If you don't like what others have to say, don't listen, but you have no business to try and shut them up.
There is a difference between the individual's right to say whatever, and the teacher's right to teach whatever.
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Old 05-05-2009, 01:45 PM
 
Location: Raleigh, NC
9,059 posts, read 12,986,027 times
Reputation: 1401
Quote:
Originally Posted by Glitch View Post
It is called "Free Speech", you might consider the concept sometime. After all, our Founding Fathers added special protections in our US Constitution specifically to protect the individual's right to say something you find objectionable.
Our founding fathers never advocated public education, so under the same guise of free speech (not something provided for as a right within the context of employment btw) this teacher would not have a job right now and they could go about yelling their psychopathic anti-religion rant on a city street corner.
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Old 05-05-2009, 01:45 PM
 
Location: Wasilla, Alaska
17,823 posts, read 23,485,231 times
Reputation: 6541
Quote:
Originally Posted by DC at the Ridge View Post
There is a difference between the individual's right to say whatever, and the teacher's right to teach whatever.
Only when it is in writting by the teacher's employers, as ruled by the court, otherwise there is no difference.
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Old 05-05-2009, 01:46 PM
 
23,838 posts, read 23,159,247 times
Reputation: 9409
Quote:
Originally Posted by Glitch View Post
It is called "Free Speech", you might consider the concept sometime. After all, our Founding Fathers added special protections in our US Constitution specifically to protect the individual's right to say something you find objectionable.

Or are you one of those fascist wannabes that want every thought and concept run past you for your approval before they are uttered? If you don't like what others have to say, don't listen, but you have no business to try and shut them up.
Before you start pointing fingers proclaiming me to "want every thought and concept run past you for your approval before they are uttered", you might want to recollect that it was YOU sir that said that employers are the gateway for what can and can't be spoken. That, my friend, equates to the "approval" you speak of. I am a proponent of free speech at any cost. This teacher crossed the line set by the Constitution and law of the land.

Maybe you should revise that school district's handbook that obviously governs in your world?
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Old 05-05-2009, 01:48 PM
 
9,763 posts, read 10,539,124 times
Reputation: 2052
Quote:
Originally Posted by ViewFromThePeak View Post
Our founding fathers never advocated public education, so under the same guise of free speech (not something provided for as a right within the context of employment btw) this teacher would not have a job right now and they could go about yelling their psychopathic anti-religion rant on a city street corner.
The teacher would have a job in a private school. What the existence of public education has to do with free speech is beyond me.
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Old 05-05-2009, 01:50 PM
 
2,654 posts, read 5,472,713 times
Reputation: 1946
Quote:
Originally Posted by Glitch View Post
It is called "Free Speech", you might consider the concept sometime. After all, our Founding Fathers added special protections in our US Constitution specifically to protect the individual's right to say something you find objectionable.

Or are you one of those fascist wannabes that want every thought and concept run past you for your approval before they are uttered? If you don't like what others have to say, don't listen, but you have no business to try and shut them up.
There is also an establishment clause in the constitution that prohibits the Gov't establishing a religon - including secular humanism. The teacher is an agent of the gov't acting in an officail capacity and his editorial comments are inappropriate.

Remember when a General at the USAFA was punished for pushing christianity on his cadets? Though I share the generals faith, his punishment was perfectly appropriate.

Government employees acting in an offical capacity are not entitled to say whatever they want when they are at work. This teacher could advocate for his beliefs 24/7 on his own time. When he's at work the needs to start his day with a nice big cup of $TFU and stick to the lesson plan.
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Old 05-05-2009, 01:54 PM
 
42,732 posts, read 29,930,284 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Glitch View Post
Only when it is in writting by the teacher's employers, as ruled by the court, otherwise there is no difference.
It's not in our school district's handbook that the teacher cannot teach bomb-making. Regardless if they have the bomb-making materials at hand or not. Lecturing students on what materials they need, where to obtain those materials, how to put the bomb together, are all aspects of free speech that the teacher cannot exercise despite it not being specifically excluded in the handbook.
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Old 05-05-2009, 01:54 PM
 
9,763 posts, read 10,539,124 times
Reputation: 2052
Quote:
Originally Posted by OC Investor2 View Post
There is also an establishment clause in the constitution that prohibits the Gov't establishing a religon - including secular humanism. The teacher is an agent of the gov't acting in an officail capacity and his editorial comments are inappropriate.

Remember when a General at the USAFA was punished for pushing christianity on his cadets? Though I share the generals faith, his punishment was perfectly appropriate.

Government employees acting in an offical capacity are not entitled to say whatever they want when they are at work. This teacher could advocate for his beliefs 24/7 on his own time. When he's at work the needs to start his day with a nice big cup of $TFU and stick to the lesson plan.
Secular humanism is a philosophy, not a religion, but I agree with everything else.
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Old 05-05-2009, 01:55 PM
 
Location: Wasilla, Alaska
17,823 posts, read 23,485,231 times
Reputation: 6541
Quote:
Originally Posted by AeroGuyDC View Post
Before you start pointing fingers proclaiming me to "want every thought and concept run past you for your approval before they are uttered", you might want to recollect that it was YOU sir that said that employers are the gateway for what can and can't be spoken. That, my friend, equates to the "approval" you speak of. I am a proponent of free speech at any cost. This teacher crossed the line set by the Constitution and law of the land.

Maybe you should revise that school district's handbook that obviously governs in your world?
Your wrong, again. I stated, several times, that in Peloza v. Capistrano (1994) the 9th Circuit Court of Appeals ruled that the government CAN restrict the speech of employees while they are on the job. This is not my opinion, this is a court ruling.

The only line this teacher crossed with the fascist religious whack jobs who want to control all speech and prohibit anything they find offensive. You clearly are not an advocate of free speech, or you would not have said there was a "line" that could be crossed. The only "lines" being crossed are the ones of your own creation.
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Old 05-05-2009, 01:57 PM
 
Location: Raleigh, NC
9,059 posts, read 12,986,027 times
Reputation: 1401
Quote:
Originally Posted by nvxplorer View Post
The teacher would have a job in a private school. What the existence of public education has to do with free speech is beyond me.
You cherry picked a concept of the founding fathers yet forgot to appreciate the fact they would never have approved of a centralized, federalized, nationalized education system.
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