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Old 06-01-2009, 09:36 AM
 
683 posts, read 825,309 times
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I really wish we had more common sense politicians like this in Washington on both sides of the aisle....



YouTube - Dr. Paul on North Korea
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Old 06-01-2009, 09:53 AM
 
31,387 posts, read 37,065,499 times
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Why is it that I can't listen to Ron Paul for more than 10-15 seconds before realizing that he is clueless about the subject that he is talking about?

Take for example the argument that North Korea's nuclear program was subsidized by the west. North Korea's nuclear program began in the 1980's. They have been producing plutonium since 1986. Efforts to end North Koreas program began in 1991 under Bush 41 and by 1992, Korea possessed enough plutonium to build at least 2 bombs. The subsidies that Paul refers to were technology transfers for light water reactors which minimize the risks of weapons production.

Chronology of U.S.-North Korean Nuclear and Missile Diplomacy | Arms Control Association

Frankly, I have tried over and over again to give Paul the benefit of the doubt because I like his sentiment, its just that his analytical skills, expertise and prescriptions are only a tad bit more sophisticated than those of his supporters.
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Old 06-01-2009, 09:54 AM
 
Location: Raleigh, NC
9,059 posts, read 12,975,389 times
Reputation: 1401
Quote:
Originally Posted by ovcatto View Post
Why is it that I can't listen to Ron Paul for more than 10-15 seconds before realizing that he is clueless about the subject that he is talking about?

Take for example the argument that North Korea's nuclear program was subsidized by the west. North Korea's nuclear program began in the 1980's. They have been producing plutonium since 1986. Efforts to end North Koreas program began in 1991 under Bush 41 and by 1992, Korea possessed enough plutonium to build at least 2 bombs. The subsidies that Paul refers to were technology transfers for light water reactors which minimize the risks of weapons production.

Chronology of U.S.-North Korean Nuclear and Missile Diplomacy | Arms Control Association

Frankly, I have tried over and over again to give Paul the benefit of the doubt because I like his sentiment, its just that his analytical skills, expertise and prescriptions are only a tad bit more sophisticated than those of his supporters.
Considering RP's supporters are much more educated than an average Obama supporter, I'll take that as a compliment Yeah, you have a few token Ph. Ds and other intellectual elite supporting Obama, but a high proportion of his supporters are undereducated and typically minority.

Wake me up when you find evidence the founding fathers would endorse a 50+ year perpetual military alertness treaty against a country that never attacked us.
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Old 06-01-2009, 10:00 AM
 
683 posts, read 825,309 times
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I wonder if Ron Paul is aware of every intelligence division / department that the U.S. has???
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Old 06-01-2009, 10:04 AM
 
31,387 posts, read 37,065,499 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ViewFromThePeak View Post
Considering RP's supporters are much more educated than an average Obama supporter,
And this "retort" is based upon what statistical analysis? Either way, years spent in education are not equal to a sophistication of ideas particularly from a political point of view. I dare say that I can run circles, and have, around a Phd physics candidate when it comes to political science, economics and history, just as they reduce me to a blathering idiot when it comes to the String Theory.

Quote:
Wake me up when you find evidence the founding fathers would endorse a 50+ year perpetual military alertness treaty against a country that never attacked us.
I can awaken those who are simply asleep, I am powerless when it comes to comas.

By the way, does the Monroe Doctrine ring a bell? It may not have the same full faith and credit as ratified treaty, as specified in Article Seven, but I think for the purposes of this discussion the similarities are sufficient both in breath and proximity to the contemporaneous lives of the "Founders".
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Old 06-01-2009, 10:06 AM
 
Location: Raleigh, NC
9,059 posts, read 12,975,389 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ovcatto View Post
And this "retort" is based upon what statistical analysis? Either way, years spent in education are not equal to a sophistication of ideas particularly from a political point of view. I dare say that I can run circles, and have, around a Phd physics candidate when it comes to political science, economics and history, just as they reduce me to a blathering idiot when it comes to the String Theory.
I am speaking of education as an aggregate, not speaking in opposition to a highly specialized individual. Even in my area of study, I would not be qualified to respond to many other research interests.


Quote:

By the way, does the Monroe Doctrine ring a bell?
James Monroe was a founding father?

Seems to me that Monroe favored democracy over a constitutional republic, and was against ratifying the US Constitution. Epic fail.

Oh yeah, Monroe kept us out of war. More epic fail.
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Old 06-01-2009, 10:19 AM
 
31,387 posts, read 37,065,499 times
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Originally Posted by ViewFromThePeak View Post

Seems to me that Monroe favored democracy over a constitutional republic, and was against ratifying the US Constitution. Epic fail.
Yes, your "retort" was an epic failure. Monroe's positions regarding the Constitution are hardly germane to the subject at hand, but it is illustrative of the contentiousness one runs into when attempting to frame the mindset of the "Founders". Either way, Monroe was President, and during his term in office the likes of Jefferson and Madison were still very much alive, and neither voiced any objections to it.
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Old 06-01-2009, 10:20 AM
 
Location: Raleigh, NC
9,059 posts, read 12,975,389 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ovcatto View Post
Yes, your "retort" was an epic failure. Monroe's positions regarding the Constitution are hardly germane to the subject at hand, but it is illustrative of the contentiousness one runs into when attempting to frame the mindset of the "Founders". Either way, Monroe was President, and during his term in office the likes of Jefferson and Madison were still very much alive, and neither voiced any objections to it.
If Jefferson felt the way Monroe did, he would have declared a Jefferson doctrine. He did not. The mere fact that Monroe did not support the Constitution and preferred more of a pure democracy (aka popular elections) reinforces my point that he was in opposition to the tenets of liberty the founding fathers intended. Therefore, the Monroe doctrine might as well have been called the Bush/Obama team doctrine.

When you have proof a founding father would have enacted a similar policy, I'll be here.
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Old 06-01-2009, 10:36 AM
 
2,661 posts, read 2,904,727 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ViewFromThePeak View Post
Considering RP's supporters are much more educated than an average Obama supporter, I'll take that as a compliment Yeah, you have a few token Ph. Ds and other intellectual elite supporting Obama, but a high proportion of his supporters are undereducated and typically minority.

Wake me up when you find evidence the founding fathers would endorse a 50+ year perpetual military alertness treaty against a country that never attacked us.
No, Obama's are more educated.

Do you see yet, how completely silly it is to make unsupportable statements?
Or do you have some statistical support that you are hiding from us?

I'll give you a hint about debate/discussion.
If you can't support your argument, you aren't going to convince anyone.
No matter how many times you claim that your conclusion is correct.
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Old 06-01-2009, 10:39 AM
 
Location: Raleigh, NC
9,059 posts, read 12,975,389 times
Reputation: 1401
Quote:
Originally Posted by compJockey View Post
No, Obama's are more educated.

Do you see yet, how completely silly it is to make unsupportable statements?
Or do you have some statistical support that you are hiding from us?

I'll give you a hint about debate/discussion.
If you can't support your argument, you aren't going to convince anyone.
No matter how many times you claim that your conclusion is correct.
I've never seen a high school dropout welfare leach attend a Ron Paul rally.
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