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Old 06-21-2009, 11:16 AM
 
Location: Charleston, SC
5,615 posts, read 14,793,059 times
Reputation: 2555

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Quote:
Originally Posted by odanny View Post
...It's clear a minority of society, a small knot of wealthy white people ...
What's race got to do with it? I've never been waiting around at the doctor's office, seen somebody come in who's not white and the receptionist do that spinning move with her finger and point towards the door to get the person to leave.

Of all the places to play the race card, this one looks like grasping at straws more than most.
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Old 06-21-2009, 11:16 AM
 
Location: London UK & Florida USA
7,923 posts, read 8,846,511 times
Reputation: 2059
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Keegan View Post
These are two seperate arguments. The government runs our defense because defense is a national issue, not a personal one. Notice that the Federal government does NOT defend us at the personal level. States, counties, and even towns have seperate and very different police forces to do that, because protection and defense of individuals cannot be accomplished by a national program.
So if a personal disaster strikes your area and the Police or Army have to save you they will be no good because they are run by the Govt or by the State?
As to te extremely successful government run UIHCs; that's debateable, isn't it? I hear stories all the time about the dissatisfaction of participants in those programs. Canadians crossing the border to get the health care they need here becasue they don't want to trust their care to the UHC program up there, etc. You hear stories huh? Oh well that clinches it, a UHC is no good because you have heard stories. A poster on here put the question about a UHC in a Canadian Blog yesterday. The Canadians in Their Blog could NOT understand what the fuss was about the Canadian UHC and they said they didn't even think about it as it was doing great. I know myself from using a UHC that it works and it is in NO WAY DEBATEABLE....it is a Fact. I know because i use a UHC and not because " I hear Stories".
Here's the thing; I'm a fairl healthy guy, with a fairly healthy family. We take care of ourselves, don't smoke, don't drink excessively, exercise, etc. Our health care costs are very low as a result. If & when we have an issue, we can choose the doctor we want to use, based uon whatever qualifications we choose. In a UHC you can pick your Doctor and your Hospital from many many Doctors and Hospitals. You can have Second Opinions and choose who gives you the second opinion.
if you are not happy and If the insurance for which we pay (much of it through my wifes employer) doesn't cover the cost, then we can pay the difference ourselves. There is No Difference to pay with a UHC. Your tax covers absolutely everything I like this system, and I like that I pay for what I need. Why should I pay higher taxes to be part of a system in which, in the very optimistic best case, will result in me haing access to the same care, but in the more likely scenarios will probably result in longer waits, more hassles and less access? So some guy who can't afford it now can get it?
I pay less in my tax for a UHC which includes many other welfare benefits, than I would pay in premiums just for healthcare in the USA. You are lucky that your wife has a great Company Health Plan. What would you do if she lost her job or you divorced or something happened to her? You would pay much much much more or even get refused if you develop a illness between now and then. So many on here get complacent and then..WHAM..Disaster strikes. No matter what Disaster you would get great health care with a UHC for far less than the premiums you would pay if your wife left you or lost her job. UHC's work well and the things that you have heard are vastly exagerated. Believe them if you want but i can tell you from first hand experience that a UHC is the best value for money Health System that anyone could get.
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Old 06-21-2009, 11:22 AM
 
1,319 posts, read 1,617,345 times
Reputation: 404
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigskydude View Post
Since when did 4 years turn into several?

Are we witnessing some more of Nobama's fuzzy math?

Do the Democrats ever plan anything beyond the length of their noses? ..

I know that the Republicans are just as guilty of grandiose plans as the next guy so it's not like I'm taking sides here or anything ... I refuse to take sides.

Just sayin'
I think given the self-destruction of the GOP - which is still ongoing and deepening - they will not be much of a factor in the 2012 elections...

I am quite sure Obama will be a 2-term president...
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Old 06-21-2009, 11:24 AM
 
Location: here.
1,359 posts, read 2,291,973 times
Reputation: 438
Quote:
Originally Posted by HubbleRules View Post
I think given the self-destruction of the GOP - which is still ongoing and deepening - they will not be much of a factor in the 2012 elections...

I am quite sure Obama will be a 2-term president...
I cant see the GOP taking the WH for the next 16-20years.
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Old 06-21-2009, 11:31 AM
 
Location: State of Being
35,879 posts, read 77,498,031 times
Reputation: 22752
Quote:
Originally Posted by SLCPUNK View Post
A bigger poll was the last election which essentially said the same thing. The will of the people is that Americans have access to health care. While the will of the GOP is to deny Americans of health care.
That is absolutely untrue.

I think ALL Americans are disgusted w/ the high cost of healthcare - as well as the high cost of healthcare insurance (and the games insurance companies play with denials).

However, HOW WE GET THERE is what is up for discussion.

People on both sides of the aisle have questions about the legislation that is now in committee . . . and that is a good thing.

Debate is what we need in this country. We need to get the BEST IDEAS and the BEST SOLUTIONS on the table. Neither party has the corner on all the good ideas (or the rotten ones, either, LOL!!!)

This country is actually not divided on healthcare. We all need to work together to figure out how to get the cost of healthcare lowered - including the costs of meds. It is not just health care insurance that is expensive - there are all the components of healthcare that area expensive.

Starting w/ the name-calling against EITHER party is not going to get us any closer to finding some answers - and really solving the high cost of healthcare in this country.

How about we all just work together on this one? Find out what is being discussed in Congress? Ask questions, get informed and make no assumptions - then write your Congressional leaders and tell them how you feel.

But for heaven's sake - quit it w/ the disparaging rhetoric. This is not going to get our citizens what we ALL want - lowered healthcare costs.
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Old 06-21-2009, 11:40 AM
 
Location: Imaginary Figment
11,449 posts, read 14,466,505 times
Reputation: 4777
Quote:
Originally Posted by odanny View Post
No offense, but the truth is, to answer your question:

72% are smarter and more perceptive than you are.
Ouch.
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Old 06-21-2009, 02:43 PM
 
Location: Martinsville, NJ
6,175 posts, read 12,939,084 times
Reputation: 4020
Quote:
Originally Posted by geeoro View Post
I pay less in my tax for a UHC which includes many other welfare benefits, than I would pay in premiums just for healthcare in the USA. You are lucky that your wife has a great Company Health Plan. What would you do if she lost her job or you divorced or something happened to her? You would pay much much much more or even get refused if you develop a illness between now and then. So many on here get complacent and then..WHAM..Disaster strikes. No matter what Disaster you would get great health care with a UHC for far less than the premiums you would pay if your wife left you or lost her job. UHC's work well and the things that you have heard are vastly exagerated. Believe them if you want but i can tell you from first hand experience that a UHC is the best value for money Health System that anyone could get.
I'm perfectly willing to pay whatever health care costs I and my family incur. I am perfectly willing to buy my own insurance if I decide that's what I should do, or pay our of pocket for each service as I need it. I'm perfectly willing to be responsible for my own health care, and not ask anyone else to do that for me. And if the health care system were allowed to be more "capitalistic" and less burdened by insurance company regulatiuons and beaurocracy, those costs would be significantly lower than they are. The argument of those in favor of UHC seems to be that there are many who cannot afford their own, so the rest of us should provide it for them. I disagree with that concept. Sure, let the most basic and emergency level services be taxpayer funded. BUt beyond that, let each buy what they want. Don't tell me I have to pay higher taxes so everyone can have access to a full range of health care options. They want something? Let them pay for it. I don't want to have to.
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Old 06-21-2009, 04:04 PM
 
Location: Southcentral Kansas
44,882 posts, read 33,268,118 times
Reputation: 4269
Quote:
Originally Posted by odanny View Post
No offense, but the truth is, to answer your question:

72% are smarter and more perceptive than you are.
Why certainly they are smarter but what about the 77% who are very satisfied or kind of satisfied with what they have. How can a poll find two numbers like that in conflict with each other? Must be some well worded questions.
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Old 06-21-2009, 04:10 PM
 
Location: Raleigh, NC
20,054 posts, read 18,282,893 times
Reputation: 3826
Quote:
Originally Posted by roysoldboy View Post
Why certainly they are smarter but what about the 77% who are very satisfied or kind of satisfied with what they have. How can a poll find two numbers like that in conflict with each other? Must be some well worded questions.
The person conducting the poll is likely dumber than 99% of the respondents.
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Old 06-21-2009, 04:12 PM
 
Location: London UK & Florida USA
7,923 posts, read 8,846,511 times
Reputation: 2059
Quote:
Originally Posted by Soccersupporter View Post
Socialism does not work. Never has never will. Just the facts please.
Can you show me where Socialism has never worked.
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