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Exodus 21:22-23
My interpertation in plain english is if you kill a pregnant women, its murder, if you kill her fetus it is a civil fine.
Yes, murder is WRONG, but above specifically states that killing a fetus is not murder. (ie an exception to the murder rule)
You can disagree if you want, maybe it is out of context, or at some point god changed his mind. If you think I am wrong, please provide the context, or your interpertation.
Exodus 21:22-23
My interpertation in plain english is if you kill a pregnant women, its murder, if you kill her fetus it is a civil fine.
Yes, murder is WRONG, but above specifically states that killing a fetus is not murder. (ie an exception to the murder rule)
You can disagree if you want, maybe it is out of context, or at some point god changed his mind. If you think I am wrong, please provide the context, or your interpertation.
Please explain the verse and where you get you interpetation. Note the bold.
22`And when men strive, and have smitten a pregnant woman, and her children have come out, and there is no mischief, he is certainly fined, as the husband of the woman doth lay upon him, and he hath given through the judges; 23and if there is mischief, then thou hast given life for life,
22 If men strive, and hurt a woman with child, so that her fruit depart from her, and yet no mischief follow: he shall be surely punished, according as the woman's husband will lay upon him; and he shall pay as the judges determine.
23 And if any mischief follow, then thou shalt give life for life,
I believe the pivotal word in the above translation is 'hurt' -- what exactly is meant by that?
We're looking at an ancient text written in an ancient language, handed down over generations and translated countless times. Who is to say what the exact context was of that verse was when first recorded?
Please explain the verse and where you get you interpetation. Note the bold.
22`And when men strive, and have smitten a pregnant woman, and her children have come out, and there is no mischief, he is certainly fined, as the husband of the woman doth lay upon him, and he hath given through the judges; 23and if there is mischief, then thou hast given life for life,
Thouest should get a modern English translation of thine Good Book. That version was translated from ancient Aramaic into thines Queen English it is hardly some kind of sacred translation so why read it like that. No body speaks like that anymore. Thouest Soccersupporter mine fine lad can findest one in most a modern booketh store.
Thouest should get a modern English translation of thine Good Book. That version was translated from ancient Aramaic into thines Queen English it is hardly some kind of sacred translation so why read it like that. No body speaks like that anymore. Thouest Soccersupporter mine fine lad can findest one in most a modern booketh store.
Disclaimer, I'm not religious, but you think we should findi new versions of books, because those "old ones" are simply outdated, and keep looking for newer ones until we get the opinion from it that we wanted?
The argument runs something like this. If two men are fighting, and the struggle injures a pregnant woman (who perhaps intervenes in an attempt to stop the dispute), so that she miscarries, a monetary fine may be imposed to compensate for the death of the fetus. This infraction, however, was not viewed as a capital case. It is then contended that the implication must be that the fetus was not a human being with rights comparable to an adult person.
What, then, is the passage teaching? Simply this. If two fighting men injure a pregnant woman, causing her to give premature birth, yet no harm follows – to either mother or child – a fine will be levied as a penalty for such carelessness. However, if any harm followed, to mother or babe, justice was to be meted out commensurate with degree of damage. Both the mother and unborn child had equal protection under the law.
Disclaimer, I'm not religious, but you think we should findi new versions of books, because those "old ones" are simply outdated, and keep looking for newer ones until we get the opinion from it that we wanted?
You seemed to have missed my point. I was pointing out that if you are going to read a translated version of the Bible why not read it in a translation that is easiest for you to understand. There are modern English versions that are translated from the original texts. I would not read a book on how to plant tomatoes in Old English so why should I read the Bible in that dialect either.
Davidmg1 appears to have it right. Here are three different translations from NIV, AS and Amplified respecively cut and pasted from BibleGateway.
One might wish to find "newer" versions because they are better translations than the King James. First, they rely on source documents that were not available at the time of King James. Second, understanding of Ancient Hebrew vocabulary or grammar has improved.
22 "If men who are fighting hit a pregnant woman and she gives birth prematurely [a] but there is no serious injury, the offender must be fined whatever the woman's husband demands and the court allows. 23 But if there is serious injury, you are to take life for life,
Footnotes:
Exodus 21:22 Or she has a miscarriage
22"If men struggle with each other and strike a woman with child so that she gives birth prematurely, yet there is no injury, he shall surely be fined as the woman's husband may demand of him, and he shall (A)pay as the judges decide.
23"But if there is any further injury, (B)then you shall appoint as a penalty life for life,
Cross references:
Exodus 21:22 : Ex 21:30; Deut 22:18, 19
Exodus 21:23 : Lev 24:19; Deut 19:21
22If men contend with each other, and a pregnant woman [interfering] is hurt so that she has a miscarriage, yet no further damage follows, [the one who hurt her] shall surely be punished with a fine [paid] to the woman's husband, as much as the judges determine.
23But if any damage follows, then you shall give life for life,
You seemed to have missed my point. I was pointing out that if you are going to read a translated version of the Bible why not read it in a translation that is easiest for you to understand. There are modern English versions that are translated from the original texts. I would not read a book on how to plant tomatoes in Old English so why should I read the Bible in that dialect either.
I see where you are coming from Contachster, your point makes perfect sense. The only problem is that many believe that the more removed from the King James version, the chances of changing the context of what was originally written is changed.
I personally read the New KJV and sometimes the NIV, because it is easier to understand. But for serious studying, I'll return back to the original King James Version.
Please explain the verse and where you get you interpetation. Note the bold.
22`And when men strive, and have smitten a pregnant woman, and her children have come out, and there is no mischief, he is certainly fined, as the husband of the woman doth lay upon him, and he hath given through the judges; 23and if there is mischief, then thou hast given life for life,
I don't know what bible you were using, but some key parts seem to have been left out, the following is from the king james version (the one that was written after columbus discovered america)
If men strive, and hurt a woman with child, so that her fruit (?fruit or fetus NOT child?)depart from her (?if the fetus aborts?) , and yet no mischief follow (?and she doesnt die?): he shall be surely punished, according as the woman's husband will lay upon him; and he shall pay as the judges determine. (?result:civil fine?) And if any mischief follow(?if she does die?), then thou shalt give life for life(?result:death penalty?),
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