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Old 06-27-2009, 07:25 PM
 
Location: Unperson Everyman Land
30,390 posts, read 20,026,742 times
Reputation: 8319

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Quote:
Originally Posted by jojajn View Post
Your arguements are circular and therefore lead nowhere.
Dear momonkey, I don't have an answer to your simple question!


"If not our incompetent and hopelessly corrupt government or an insurance company, who pays for it?"

Very simple, who pays for it?
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Old 06-27-2009, 07:26 PM
 
Location: Midwest
31,007 posts, read 19,495,190 times
Reputation: 7720
Quote:
Originally Posted by ndfmnlf View Post
Performing heroic but futile treatments are grounds for lawsuit and disciplining as well. If you knew that the treatment was futile but you did it anyway, you can be subject to disciplinary action by the state board. If a surgeon performed a liver transplant on a brain dead patient because the family wanted it done (believing the patient will experience a miracle and wake up one day), the surgeon deserves to have his license revoked.
ndfmnlf, Thank you for having a sensible and realistic viewpoint which is based on fact.
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Old 06-27-2009, 07:28 PM
 
Location: Unperson Everyman Land
30,390 posts, read 20,026,742 times
Reputation: 8319
Quote:
Originally Posted by ndfmnlf View Post
Is this the best you can do? Not getting a non-beneficial hip replacement is now being equated to euthanasia?


Who decides who is or is not terminally ill? I'd like an answer to that question.
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Old 06-27-2009, 07:32 PM
 
Location: Unperson Everyman Land
30,390 posts, read 20,026,742 times
Reputation: 8319
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
I don't think any of us know the situation as well as the patient and her doctor. It's inappropriate to say, "they could have done this", "they could have done that", etc.

I'm glad you finally agree with me that a sleazy government beancounter should not be making these decissions.
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Old 06-27-2009, 07:32 PM
 
4,182 posts, read 5,787,266 times
Reputation: 1720
Quote:
Originally Posted by momonkey View Post
How many time we gonna change the story here? First she was hopelessly bedridden until I pointed out that people who are not walking generally don't break their hips. Can we at least agree that this person was able to walk at least well enough without "maximum assistance" to suffer an broken hip?

As for your horror story, tell it to someone who hasn't been through the procedure twice. I got an IV, went to sleep and woke up with a new hip joint. The catheter wasn't all that great, but I definitely would have gone through it to walk the last weeks of my life vs. laying in a bed and waiting to die.

In any case, do you really trust this government that has proven repeatedly that they are completely incapable of doing anything except screwing us?

If it is a failure in Canada where they have a relatively competent government, what makes you think our retarded government has any chance at all?

Why do you keep comparing yourself to Obama's grandma when your case was different from hers? Using yourself as an example doesn't really work. As others pointed out, you didn't have terminal cancer when you had your hip replacement. Is this hard to understand?

Obama's grandma was in the dying process. The dying process involves the shutting down of bodily functions. Being bedridden is a part of this process. The patient will gradually fade out of consciousness and expire. That's how people die. You seem to have very unrealistic expectations of this process. You want people to be strutting on their artificial hips prior to expiring? Is this what "conservatism" has come down to?
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Old 06-27-2009, 07:34 PM
 
Location: Midwest
31,007 posts, read 19,495,190 times
Reputation: 7720
Quote:
Originally Posted by momonkey View Post
Dear momonkey, I don't have an answer to your simple question!


"If not our incompetent and hopelessly corrupt government or an insurance company, who pays for it?"

Very simple, who pays for it?
Who pays for it now?
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Old 06-27-2009, 07:35 PM
 
4,182 posts, read 5,787,266 times
Reputation: 1720
Quote:
Originally Posted by momonkey View Post
Who decides who is or is not terminally ill? I'd like an answer to that question.

The doctor or team of doctors caring for the patient, the family, and if he's still able to, the patient.
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Old 06-27-2009, 07:35 PM
 
Location: Midwest
31,007 posts, read 19,495,190 times
Reputation: 7720
Quote:
Originally Posted by momonkey View Post
I'm glad you finally agree with me that a sleazy government beancounter should not be making these decissions.
Have you heard of Medicare? Do you want Medicare abolished? Who makes the medical decisions for Medicare patients?
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Old 06-27-2009, 07:36 PM
NCN
 
Location: NC/SC Border Patrol
21,135 posts, read 21,823,696 times
Reputation: 23216
Quote:
Originally Posted by Miborn View Post
WOW JUST WOW!




At a healthcare town hall, he says stopping futile procedures for the terminally ill can lower costs.
By Peter Nicholas
June 25, 2009
Reporting from Washington -- President Obama suggested at a town hall event Wednesday night that one way to shave medical costs is to stop expensive and ultimately futile procedures performed on people who are about to die and don't stand to gain from the extra care.

In a nationally televised event at the White House, Obama said families need better information so they don't unthinkingly approve "additional tests or additional drugs that the evidence shows is not necessarily going to improve care."


Obama discusses deathbed measures - Los Angeles Times

So now instead of the insurance companies, Obama is going to play doctor. Yes, we really need national health care??????????? This man and his control freak attitude is just plain scary. What happens to the patient needs to stay between the patient, the doctor and the next of kin. I don't want Obama deciding what will happen to me concerning my health.
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Old 06-27-2009, 07:39 PM
 
Location: Unperson Everyman Land
30,390 posts, read 20,026,742 times
Reputation: 8319
Quote:
Originally Posted by jojajn View Post
momonkey, first you want everything done for a patient where there is no hope. Then you complain that our government is broke.

Originally Posted by momonkey


You are all over the map. Impossible to have a reasonable discussion with you!

Not at all. The government is broke because they are irresponsible. They should not be allowed to take over a very important function of private sector because they have failed at just about everything else they've attempted. If one in six Americans are not covered, mandate Medicare for these people.
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