Christian Conservatives, Social Programs and the Teachings of Christ. (Congress, salary, illegal)

[ovcatto]

I am curious as to how "Christian conservatives" reconcile their views about "redistribution of wealth," and the programs designed to alleviate the suffering of the poor with Christ's teachings and the teachings of the Bible?

You know:

"Speak up for those who cannot speak for themselves, for the rights of all who are destitute. Speak up and judge fairly; defend the rights of the poor and needy."
-Proverbs 31:8-9

"He who mocks the poor shows contempt for their Maker; whoever gloats over disaster will not go unpunished."
-Proverbs 17:5

"Jesus answered, 'If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me.'"
-Matthew 19:21

"Command those who are rich in this present world not to be arrogant nor to put their hope in wealth, which is so uncertain, but to put their hope in God, who richly provides us with everything for our enjoyment. Command them to do good, to be rich in good deeds, and to be generous and willing to share. In this way they will lay up treasure for themselves as a firm foundation for the coming age, so that they may take hold of the life that is truly life."
-1 Timothy 6:17-19

"Now this was the sin of your sister Sodom: She and her daughters were arrogant, overfed and unconcerned; they did not help the poor and needy."
-Ezekiel 16:49

"There will always be poor people in the land. Therefore I command you to be openhanded toward your brothers and toward the poor and needy in your land."
-Deuteronomy 15:11

[ergohead]

I wonder if Bernie Made-Off will be born again in prison.

[Chatteress]

Originally Posted by ovcatto

I am curious as to how "Christian conservatives" reconcile their views about "redistribution of wealth," and the programs designed to alleviate the suffering of the poor with Christ's teachings and the teachings of the Bible?

You know:

"Speak up for those who cannot speak for themselves, for the rights of all who are destitute. Speak up and judge fairly; defend the rights of the poor and needy."
-Proverbs 31:8-9

"He who mocks the poor shows contempt for their Maker; whoever gloats over disaster will not go unpunished."
-Proverbs 17:5

"Jesus answered, 'If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me.'"
-Matthew 19:21

"Command those who are rich in this present world not to be arrogant nor to put their hope in wealth, which is so uncertain, but to put their hope in God, who richly provides us with everything for our enjoyment. Command them to do good, to be rich in good deeds, and to be generous and willing to share. In this way they will lay up treasure for themselves as a firm foundation for the coming age, so that they may take hold of the life that is truly life."
-1 Timothy 6:17-19

"Now this was the sin of your sister Sodom: She and her daughters were arrogant, overfed and unconcerned; they did not help the poor and needy."
-Ezekiel 16:49

"There will always be poor people in the land. Therefore I command you to be openhanded toward your brothers and toward the poor and needy in your land."
-Deuteronomy 15:11

Where does the Bible state that it's the GOVERNMENT's job to provide for the needy? The Bible essentially calls us, the people, to VOLUNTARILY provide for those in need through charity and other good deeds. Since when is forced taxation VOLUNTARY?

By the way, I do support safety nets for folks who fall on hard times but we really need to reform our current system to ensure that those that are really in need are actually receiving government assistance and get rid of fraud. We don't have an unlimited supply of money and no matter what our politicians state, it will always be the middle class that will bear the burdens of increased taxes with our current tax system.

[evilnewbie]

Originally Posted by ovcatto

I am curious as to how "Christian conservatives" reconcile their views about "redistribution of wealth," and the programs designed to alleviate the suffering of the poor with Christ's teachings and the teachings of the Bible?

You know:

"Speak up for those who cannot speak for themselves, for the rights of all who are destitute. Speak up and judge fairly; defend the rights of the poor and needy."
-Proverbs 31:8-9

I speak for anyone to be treated fairly not just the poor. Everyone has the same rights. The poor are afforded the same rights as anyone. If they commit a crime, they should be punished just like anyone else. Nobody has more "rights" with me in the judgment seat. Albeit I do see liberal celebrities getting off too easily but that's a liberal thing... I wish I could punish them just as severely...

"He who mocks the poor shows contempt for their Maker; whoever gloats over disaster will not go unpunished."
-Proverbs 17:5

I never mock anyone because of how little money they have (but I do mock people with a lot of money)... I will mock people on their stances and actions... but not because someone is poor...

"Jesus answered, 'If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me.'"
-Matthew 19:21

I don't want to be perfect... I try but I know perfection is a goal not a mandate...

"Command those who are rich in this present world not to be arrogant nor to put their hope in wealth, which is so uncertain, but to put their hope in God, who richly provides us with everything for our enjoyment. Command them to do good, to be rich in good deeds, and to be generous and willing to share. In this way they will lay up treasure for themselves as a firm foundation for the coming age, so that they may take hold of the life that is truly life."
-1 Timothy 6:17-19

I tell them not to be arrogant when they are... however, I don't tell them they have to follow God which I think would be arrogant of me. I'll tell people to do the "right" thing but whether they do or not is up to them... I would hope that generosity is obvious and I have seen them doing generous things.. and share... very few that I know are not generous... On another note, I don't consider them to be wealthy... they have bills to pay like anyone else... the cash left over after all bills is close to zero... so it depends on how you define wealthy... someone who makes 300k and have a couple hundred dollars left over each month or someone who makes 50k and have a thousand dollars left over each month... obviously the one making 50k have more to contribute but should I be telling them to? Much less the one who makes 300k and has nothing left over... I think liberals look more on salary then whats left over...

"Now this was the sin of your sister Sodom: She and her daughters were arrogant, overfed and unconcerned; they did not help the poor and needy."
-Ezekiel 16:49

This quote reminds me of the oligarchy... so the oligarchy in the US are actors, actresses, singers, athletes, CEOs, and politicians... so should we have a special tax against these people? I haven't seen it.. instead I see the government taxing the hard-working people and leave loopholes for celebrities and politicians... let me know when liberals fight against these people instead of demanding more money for them...

"There will always be poor people in the land. Therefore I command you to be openhanded toward your brothers and toward the poor and needy in your land."
-Deuteronomy 15:11

Yes, I am willing to help if people are willing to accept that help... however throwing money at a problem doesn't solve it... when liberals start thinking about fixing problems instead of throwing money at it... let me know...

[ovcatto]

Originally Posted by Chatteress

Where does the Bible state that it's the GOVERNMENT's job to provide for the needy? The Bible essentially calls us, the people, to VOLUNTARILY provide for those in need through charity and other good deeds. Since when is forced taxation VOLUNTARY?

First, let's be perfectly clear, there is nothing forced about taxation. The income tax was passed by 2/3rds of both Houses of the Congress and 3/4ths of the all the states approved the 16th Amendment. Tax policy has always been a significant issue in every election both on the state, local and Federal level, so please spare me the forced argument.

As for your argument regarding voluntary contribution;

"Command those who are rich in this present world not to be arrogant nor to put their hope in wealth, which is so uncertain, but to put their hope in God, who richly provides us with everything for our enjoyment. Command them to do good, to be rich in good deeds, and to be generous and willing to share. In this way they will lay up treasure for themselves as a firm foundation for the coming age, so that they may take hold of the life that is truly life."

-1 Timothy 6:17-19

But be that as it may, are you arguing that God and Christ would quibble over whether the caring for the poor should be done individuals alone or indirectly by society as a whole?

By the way, I do support safety nets for folks who fall on hard times but we really need to reform our current system to ensure that those that are really in need are actually receiving government assistance and get rid of fraud.

If that is the case then the original question is not addressed to you in the first place. I am curious about those who hold to the view that the poor are poor due to their own failings and as a result are not worthy of your largesse. One last point of detail, fraud by definition is illegal. If it is illegal then reform is not the issue, simply enforcement.

[ovcatto]

evilnewbie;

I didn't find much in your response that was germane to the topic but I found this interesting:

This quote reminds me of the oligarchy... so the oligarchy in the US are actors, actresses, singers, athletes, CEOs, and politicians... so should we have a special tax against these people?

As Chris Rock once pointed out, actors, singer, and most politicians are right, the people who pay them are wealthy; so much for the oligarchy.

[TXboomerang]

Originally Posted by ovcatto

I am curious as to how "Christian conservatives" reconcile their views about "redistribution of wealth," and the programs designed to alleviate the suffering of the poor with Christ's teachings and the teachings of the Bible?

You know:

"Speak up for those who cannot speak for themselves, for the rights of all who are destitute. Speak up and judge fairly; defend the rights of the poor and needy."
-Proverbs 31:8-9

"He who mocks the poor shows contempt for their Maker; whoever gloats over disaster will not go unpunished."
-Proverbs 17:5

"Jesus answered, 'If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me.'"
-Matthew 19:21

"Command those who are rich in this present world not to be arrogant nor to put their hope in wealth, which is so uncertain, but to put their hope in God, who richly provides us with everything for our enjoyment. Command them to do good, to be rich in good deeds, and to be generous and willing to share. In this way they will lay up treasure for themselves as a firm foundation for the coming age, so that they may take hold of the life that is truly life."
-1 Timothy 6:17-19

"Now this was the sin of your sister Sodom: She and her daughters were arrogant, overfed and unconcerned; they did not help the poor and needy."
-Ezekiel 16:49

"There will always be poor people in the land. Therefore I command you to be openhanded toward your brothers and toward the poor and needy in your land."
-Deuteronomy 15:11

In each and every one of those verses, the topic was personal responsibility to the poor. Not having an extra chunk of money taken out of paychecks to go to a bloated beauracracy that inefficiently handles taking care of the poor.

Ever been to a soup kitchen to serve? I can assure you it is far more fullfulling, as well as far more efficient and personal in taking care of the poor.

[thefinalsay]

taxes aren't forced? ok, I choose not to pay them. wait, they take it anyway? sounds forced to me.

what a waste of a thread. a far extremist reach at best.

[hawkeye2009]

Originally Posted by ovcatto

I am curious as to how "Christian conservatives" reconcile their views about "redistribution of wealth," and the programs designed to alleviate the suffering of the poor with Christ's teachings and the teachings of the Bible?

You know:

"Speak up for those who cannot speak for themselves, for the rights of all who are destitute. Speak up and judge fairly; defend the rights of the poor and needy."
-Proverbs 31:8-9

"He who mocks the poor shows contempt for their Maker; whoever gloats over disaster will not go unpunished."
-Proverbs 17:5

"Jesus answered, 'If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me.'"
-Matthew 19:21

"Command those who are rich in this present world not to be arrogant nor to put their hope in wealth, which is so uncertain, but to put their hope in God, who richly provides us with everything for our enjoyment. Command them to do good, to be rich in good deeds, and to be generous and willing to share. In this way they will lay up treasure for themselves as a firm foundation for the coming age, so that they may take hold of the life that is truly life."
-1 Timothy 6:17-19

"Now this was the sin of your sister Sodom: She and her daughters were arrogant, overfed and unconcerned; they did not help the poor and needy."
-Ezekiel 16:49

"There will always be poor people in the land. Therefore I command you to be openhanded toward your brothers and toward the poor and needy in your land."
-Deuteronomy 15:11

Voluntary donation of money to entities that one chooses is charity. Most conservatives donate much more to charities than liberals. Confiscation of wealth from private citizens by the government to distribute to entities that may be diametrically opposed to Christianity is a different matter.

[hotair2]

Originally Posted by ergohead

I wonder if Bernie Made-Off will be born again in prison.

Bernie is Jewish.