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Last time I counted, we have been "dragged" in to zero wars on Israel's behalf.
Every problem we've had in the Middle East since 1948, including 9/11 and three wars, not counting invading Lebanon twice, stems directly from our relationship with Israel. Without Israel there would be zero problems with the Arabs: none. They would be falling over themselves to sell us oil if we cut the Israelis off.
The Joint Chiefs of Staff warned Truman in 1948 that jumping into the Middle Eastern fray on the side of Israel would endanger our national security and our energy supply. They merely said what everyone knew, and what everyone still knows whether they admit it or not: Our one-sided pseudo-alliance with Israel is bad for America.
Every problem we've had in the Middle East since 1948, including 9/11 and three wars, not counting invading Lebanon twice, stems directly from our relationship with Israel. Without Israel there would be zero problems with the Arabs: none. They would be falling over themselves to sell us oil if we cut the Israelis off.
The Joint Chiefs of Staff warned Truman in 1948 that jumping into the Middle Eastern fray on the side of Israel would endanger our national security and our energy supply. They merely said what everyone knew, and what everyone still knows whether they admit it or not: Our one-sided pseudo-alliance with Israel is bad for America.
Are you kidding? Obama Bin Laden clearly said he attacked America because of our presence on Saudi soil. Unless of course you are a "truther..."
America's first intervention in Lebanon, in 1958, had absolutely nothing to do with Israel. We separated a spat between the Lebanese muslims who were aligned with Soviet allies Syria and Egypt and the Maronite Christians.
America's involvement in 1982 was to protect the Palestine Liberation Organization from the annihilation that those terrorists deserved. And do not forget it was Hizbullah (i.e. Muslim Arabs) who killed our boys in Lebanon, not Jews.
And lastly, to pretend our relationship with the Arab and Muslim world would be all rainbows and puppy dogs were it not for those pesky Jews, go look up the Barbary Wars and see how the US-Arab relationship got its start.
Might I suggest loosening the tin foil hat on your head? It can constrict blood flow to the noggin.
Are you kidding? Obama Bin Laden clearly said he attacked America because of our presence on Saudi soil.
Bull. He first envisioned 9/11 as retaliation for Beirut, 1982. He said so. You've probably taken pains not to remember it, but he said so.
"While I was looking at these destroyed towers in Lebanon, it sparked in my mind that the tyrant should be punished with the same and that we should destroy towers in America, so that it tastes what we taste and would be deterred from killing our children and women," ~Osama bin Laden, October 2004
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America's first intervention in Lebanon, in 1958, had absolutely nothing to do with Israel. We separated a spat between the Lebanese muslims who were aligned with Soviet allies Syria and Egypt and the Maronite Christians.
Any why had Egypt and Syria suddenly become Soviet allies, genius?
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America's involvement in 1982 was to protect the Palestine Liberation Organization from the annihilation that those terrorists deserved. And do not forget it was Hizbullah (i.e. Muslim Arabs) who killed our boys in Lebanon, not Jews.
Do not forget that they killed "our" boys (really Reagan's boys) in their country, not our country, so boo f###in' hoo.
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And lastly, to pretend our relationship with the Arab and Muslim world would be all rainbows and puppy dogs were it not for those pesky Jews, go look up the Barbary Wars and see how the US-Arab relationship got its start.
What next, bring up the Crusades?
The peace that prevailed between us and the Arab states from 1805 to 1948 was not interrupted by anything except our stupid, unaccountable and ultimately masochistic support for Israel.
It is now clear that those who claim that the blood of the American solders (the enemy occupying the land of the Muslims) should be protected are merely repeating what is imposed on them by the regime; fearing the aggression and interested in saving themselves. It is a duty now on every tribe in the Arab Peninsula to fight, Jihad, in the cause of Allah and to cleanse the land from those occupiers.
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Originally Posted by djacques
Any why had Egypt and Syria suddenly become Soviet allies, genius?
This is a joke right? Israel's patron until the mid-1960's was France. Egypt came in to the Soviet bloc sphere of influence in the 1950's as a response to British aims. How can someone such as yourself who so clearly does not know/understand the history of the region have such strong feelings about it?
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Originally Posted by djacques
Do not forget that they killed "our" boys (really Reagan's boys) in their country, not our country, so boo f###in' hoo.
I guess those imperialist Marines got what they deserve? Wow...
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Originally Posted by djacques
What next, bring up the Crusades?
Why not? The Arabs do it all the time.
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Originally Posted by djacques
The peace that prevailed between us and the Arab states from 1805 to 1948 was not interrupted by anything except our stupid, unaccountable and ultimately masochistic support for Israel.
That's a joke right? Which Arab states that we do not have peace with existed from 1805-1948? Syria, which became a state in 1946? Iraq, which became a state (kingdom) in 1932? Or do we we want to bring in Persian Iran which had a cordial relationship with Israel until the 1979 Islamofascist revolution? Or are you overly concerned with the relationship between Tunisia and the US being interrupted by our relationship of Israel? Gosh, that would be, like, tragic.
Djacques, you are in over your head. Why do you even bother? Isn't there a militia forum for you somewhere that would be more your speed?
So bin Laden picked what he considered his strongest argument for jihad, Quranically speaking, to use for his fatwa. So what? That doesn't alter or even contradict what he said in 2004.
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This is a joke right? Israel's patron until the mid-1960's was France. Egypt came in to the Soviet bloc sphere of influence in the 1950's as a response to British aims. How can someone such as yourself who so clearly does not know/understand the history of the region have such strong feelings about it?
Egypt's monarchy was overthrown in 1954 because of the destablization caused by the Arab-Israeli conflict. After that the Soviets had the sense to drop Israel like a hot potato and gobble the increasingly radical Arab states up as clients--just like they did with Syria, Iraq, South Yemen, and Libya. It never had to happen that way.
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I guess those imperialist Marines got what they deserve? Wow...
Gullibility isn't cost-free. Gung-ho idiots dying in foreign lands they invaded for no better reason than that their mendacious rulers ordered them to, is an example of how natural selection improves the gene pool.
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That's a joke right? Which Arab states that we do not have peace with existed from 1805-1948? Syria, which became a state in 1946? Iraq, which became a state (kingdom) in 1932? Or do we we want to bring in Persian Iran which had a cordial relationship with Israel until the 1979 Islamofascist revolution? Or are you overly concerned with the relationship between Tunisia and the US being interrupted by our relationship of Israel? Gosh, that would be, like, tragic.
Our relations with the by-then-decolonized Arab world were stunted and deformed by our support for the Israeli colonizers, invaders and murderers. There was no reason it had to be that way--we have Harry Truman alone to thank for that.
My Uncle who is retired military and a FAR right Republican told me that the US is a christian country, according to the bible, we have no choice but to support gods chosen people, Israel.
Not saying I think that but that was his logic for it. All I could think at the time was "WOW, are we really related??"
So bin Laden picked what he considered his strongest argument for jihad, Quranically speaking, to use for his fatwa. So what? That doesn't alter or even contradict what he said in 2004.
Yes, again, his primary motivation for 9-11 was not US support for Israel but US presence on Saudi soil. That would be, in the vernacular, "his strongest argument."
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Originally Posted by djacques
Egypt's monarchy was overthrown in 1954 because of the destablization caused by the Arab-Israeli conflict. After that the Soviets had the sense to drop Israel like a hot potato and gobble the increasingly radical Arab states up as clients--just like they did with Syria, Iraq, South Yemen, and Libya. It never had to happen that way.
Egypt's monarchy was overthrown because it was corrupt, and because Egypt lost the 1948 war. Not because of "destablization (sic)." Relations between Israel and the former USSR were never strong to begin with, and by 1954 were already in shambles. The idea that somehow in 1954 the Soviets "dropped' Israel is ignorant to say the least. And you forgot to mention that from 1955-1958 Iraq cut all diplomatic relations with the Soviets. It wasn't until Ghaddafi took over in the late 1960's that US bases were removed from Libya. Gobbled up indeed.
Again, beyond the Saudis the United States, with a few noted exceptions, was not a major player in the region until the 1960's. The British and French were still trying to exercise the last vestiges of their influence in the region.
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Originally Posted by djacques
Gullibility isn't cost-free. Gung-ho idiots dying in foreign lands they invaded for no better reason than that their mendacious rulers ordered them to, is an example of how natural selection improves the gene pool.
Your opinion of our armed forces and the men and women who serve bravely is duly noted. Semper fi.
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Originally Posted by djacques
Our relations with the by-then-decolonized Arab world were stunted and deformed by our support for the Israeli colonizers, invaders and murderers. There was no reason it had to be that way--we have Harry Truman alone to thank for that.
Harry Truman alone? Then why do you keep blaming the Jews?
When will the United States of America stop panding to Israel and why is the peace and security of the United States tied to the existance of Israel? Was there not a United States of America prior to the establishment of the State of Israel in 1948? Of course there was. So, why do so many Americans have a fear that having "normal" vs "special" relations with Israel means the end of U.S. existance? Is it because the American people believe Israel will nuke them? Or perhaps, Americans believe the United States as a nation will be cast down into hell for having "normal" rather than "special" relations with Israel?
Sure would be nice to cut them loose. In their 60's and still living with Mommy and Daddy....
What a scam!! Ask him who he thinks wrote the bible!! Anybody can write a book claiming some special status. Selling it to the public and forming a religion around it even helps the simpletons swallow the fables!
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Originally Posted by Lindsey_Mcfarren
My Uncle told me that the US is a christian country, according to the bible, we have no choice but to support gods chosen people, Israel.
Yes, again, his primary motivation for 9-11 was not US support for Israel but US presence on Saudi soil. That would be, in the vernacular, "his strongest argument."
"Primary motivation"=/="Strongest argument"
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Egypt's monarchy was overthrown because it was corrupt, and because Egypt lost the 1948 war. Not because of "destablization (sic)."
I said, the destablization caused by the war. Not sure how that got lost in translation. Yeah the monarchy was corrupt, show me a government that isn't.
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Relations between Israel and the former USSR were never strong to begin with, and by 1954 were already in shambles.
Nonsense. The USSR was the second nation to recognize Israel and it funneled the Israelis arms from Czechoslovakia. The Communist Party USA held parades in the streets to celebrate Israel's independence. Israel was founded by a bunch of half-Marxist half-nationalists anyway, so that's not too shocking.
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And you forgot to mention that from 1955-1958 Iraq cut all diplomatic relations with the Soviets.
Didn't last long, did it?
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It wasn't until Ghaddafi took over in the late 1960's that US bases were removed from Libya.
I know when Col. Qadaffi took over, but it has little to do with the point. The 1967 war had re-radicalized the region and driven anyone on the side of the Palestinians to the left--you know this as well as I do.
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Again, beyond the Saudis the United States, with a few noted exceptions, was not a major player in the region until the 1960's.
And we should've kept our noses well out of it then, as well as in 1948.
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Your opinion of our armed forces and the men and women who serve bravely is duly noted. Semper fi.
Lots of mafiosi are brave too. So what?
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Harry Truman alone? Then why do you keep blaming the Jews?
I don't and I never have, except in your fevered imagination. I blame anyone who supports Israel, whether Jewish, Christian or atheist.
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