Obama's birth certificate: The "birthers" and the sudden hatred of transparency (Congress, ethic)

[thecoalman]

Originally Posted by groar

it's evidence that unless rebutted holds up as proof of a fact.

Correct but you were asserting the document itself was enough evidence which it is not.

[newtoli]

Originally Posted by thecoalman

Correct but you were asserting the document itself was enough evidence which it is not.

Do you think the State of Hawaii is in on some kind of conspiracy?

[Katarina Witt]

Originally Posted by thecoalman

I'm on the fence about this issue myself, my only concern is they fight this at every turn and if they simply handed over the requested documents it would put it to rest for most people like myself. Obama and the people handling this situation are just as much to blame as those pushing the issue because instead of putting the fire out they keep pouring gasoline on it.

When I see the kindergarten records of Bush, Clinton, Bush I, Reagan, Carter, etc all the way back to George Washington, then I will agree that Obama should show his. "Requested documents" my patootie. Every document begets a request for another one. "But we haven't seen his pre-school records, his Sunday School records, his Baptism certificate", etc, etc, etc.

[USNRET04]

I think it's best for the birther's to stop this nonsense. The left is seizing on this to make all conservatives look bad. There is only a small group that is pushing this, but they are very vocal. If this continues, it could destroy the conservative movement.

For me, knowing that two Honolulu newspapers posted his birth announcement back in 1961 is further proof that Obama was born in the US.

[groar]

Originally Posted by thecoalman

Correct but you were asserting the document itself was enough evidence which it is not.

i am still asserting that.

it is enough evidence unless there is evidence that contradicts it. that is the definition of prima facie.

there is no evidence that contradicts it, therefore he doesn't need to provide any further proof (although there is already further proof).

[DC at the Ridge]

Originally Posted by thecoalman

I'm on the fence about this issue myself, my only concern is they fight this at every turn and if they simply handed over the requested documents it would put it to rest for most people like myself. Obama and the people handling this situation are just as much to blame as those pushing the issue because instead of putting the fire out they keep pouring gasoline on it.

Orly Taitz and the other attorneys playing this game make it out that Obama and his lawyers are fighting this at every turn. It makes sense for them to do so because they are in it for the money. Every time they have a court setback they claim the good fight and the need for more funding. But the truth is that Obama and his lawyers aren't fighting this at every turn. They are letting the court system do its job, which is about making the plaintiffs make their case. Obama is the defendant, it's up to Taitz and the others like her to prove Obama is guilty of whatever they are accusing him of. All Obama's lawyers have to do is to keep the process honest. Taitz isn't fighting the good fight against overwhelming odds. Taitz is prolonging the process at every turn in order to keep her believers writing checks to her. Her believers are making her a wealthy woman. She may not be a good lawyer, and I don't think she's a particularly ethical person. But she knows how to make money.

[DC at the Ridge]

Originally Posted by thecoalman

Correct but you were asserting the document itself was enough evidence which it is not.

It is unless it can be proven to be fraudulent. With the State of Hawaii confirming its authenticity, that's not going to happen.

[thecoalman]

I already stated what my thoughts on the issue are and any rational person like myself should have the same questions. Frankly I wish he would just release them and would hope they show exactly what they have been saying all along. The US certainly doesn't need this exploding into a more than it already is.

[newtoli]

Originally Posted by thecoalman

I already stated what my thoughts on the issue are and any rational person like myself should have the same questions. Frankly I wish he would just release them and would hope they show exactly what they have been saying all along. The US certainly doesn't need this exploding into a more than it already is.

He already released his Birth Certificate. The State of HI already deemed it authentic. What more needs to come out? He's appeased people enough. Have you seen the BC of any other President?

[DC at the Ridge]

Originally Posted by thecoalman

I already stated what my thoughts on the issue are and any rational person like myself should have the same questions. Frankly I wish he would just release them and would hope they show exactly what they have been saying all along. The US certainly doesn't need this exploding into a more than it already is.

I don't think it's going to explode into anything more. Unless the "birthers" can actually make a sensible case for their point of view, it's certainly not going to grow. And given the events of this week, it should actually shrink. But the die-hards will continue to mutter, and mutter, and mutter. Because no amount of evidence will ever convince them. It will just be another doctored document, and the evidence of its fraudulence will be nothing more than the time it took to get the documents released. Obama is not stupid. He knows there is no advantage in feeding this issue. So he's just going to go on ignoring it. Because that's the sensible thing to do.