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Old 08-11-2009, 10:28 AM
 
4,657 posts, read 8,727,529 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rlchurch View Post
Yes and yes.
Fair enough.
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Old 08-11-2009, 10:30 AM
 
35,016 posts, read 39,232,339 times
Reputation: 6195
Only America-hating liberals would buy a GM Volt.

Chevy Volt: Reasons For Use and Cost Of Operation | GM-VOLT : Chevy Volt Electric Car Site
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Old 08-11-2009, 12:33 PM
 
Location: Imaginary Figment
11,448 posts, read 14,495,118 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GregW View Post
40K is 10 to 20 times as much as I pay for my cars. No sale even if the thing did not use fuel at all.
All new technology is expensive when it comes out and eventually becomes affordable for the masses. But of course you know that...
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Old 08-11-2009, 12:38 PM
 
Location: Imaginary Figment
11,448 posts, read 14,495,118 times
Reputation: 4777
Quote:
Originally Posted by hotair2 View Post
I think it is a step in the right direction.
Right and that's the point. This is new technology that is leading us away from our addiction to oil. This is a GOOD thing. All this stupid talk about "Government motors" and childish complaining should be ignored.

Baby steps people.
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Old 08-11-2009, 12:40 PM
 
8,652 posts, read 17,270,595 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by USNRET04 View Post
Always helps if you read the article...

The Volt is powered by an electric motor and a battery pack with a 40-mile range. After that, a small internal combustion engine kicks in to generate electricity for a total range of 300 miles. The battery pack can be recharged from a standard home outlet.
I was going by 230 MPG (miles per gallon)..
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Old 08-11-2009, 12:42 PM
 
Location: West, Southwest, East & Northeast
3,463 posts, read 7,319,390 times
Reputation: 871
Nissan Scoffs at the Volt's 230 MPG Rating, Brags About 367 MPG Rating for LEAF
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Old 08-11-2009, 12:46 PM
 
3,644 posts, read 10,957,943 times
Reputation: 5515
Nice try, but GM misses the boat here.

Those "up to" figures of 230 mpg are impressive... if you only need to drive 50 or less roundtrip between fill ups. My dh is out working today and will put over 500 miles on his vehicle today. With the Volt, only the first 40 miles would save gas...

a useless, overpriced bandaid.
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Old 08-11-2009, 12:48 PM
 
Location: The Great State of Texas, Finally!
5,482 posts, read 12,272,016 times
Reputation: 2863
If it got great gas mileage AND it didn't break down every 3 years, like many American models do, then it would be worth it.
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Old 08-11-2009, 12:50 PM
 
Location: Washington DC
5,922 posts, read 8,082,387 times
Reputation: 954
Quote:
Originally Posted by sskkc View Post
Nice try, but GM misses the boat here.

Those "up to" figures of 230 mpg are impressive... if you only need to drive 50 or less roundtrip between fill ups. My dh is out working today and will put over 500 miles on his vehicle today. With the Volt, only the first 40 miles would save gas...

a useless, overpriced bandaid.
A 40 mile range will cover about 75-80% of the working population commute to and from work, which is the design basis for the car.
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Old 08-11-2009, 01:10 PM
 
Location: Prepperland
19,036 posts, read 14,274,778 times
Reputation: 16790
"Government Motors" is being deceptive.
Chevrolet Volt - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
...The Volt's range-extending gasoline engine is expected to get approximately 50 mpg. (EPA estimate).


Here's the real problem - - -

List of countries by vehicles per capita - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
USA = 765 vehicles per 1000 people,
or 234,379,996 vehicles based on the estimated population of the United States : 306,379,081.

STEO Table Browser : U.S. Crude Oil and Liquid Fuels Supply, Consumption, and Inventories
U.S. oil consumption: down to 19.2 million barrels / day, due to the economic contraction in 2008.

Domestic production is 4.96 million barrels / day. (2008)
100 x (19.2 - 4.96/19.2 ) = 74% is imported
That's roughly 14.24 million barrels / day we import - and if it was cut off, for whatever reason, what happens?

Oil reserves in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Proven oil reserves in the United States are 21 billion barrels (3.3×10^9 m3), excluding the Strategic Petroleum Reserve. The U.S. Department of the Interior estimates the total volume of undiscovered, technically recoverable prospective resources in all areas of the United States, including the Federal Outer Continental Shelf, the 1002 area of the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge, the National Petroleum Reserve–Alaska, and the Bakken Formation, total 134 billion barrels (21.3×10^9 m3) of crude oil. This excludes oil shale reserves, as there is no significant commercial production of oil from oil shale in the United States.
0.6 billion barrels of oil = one month U.S. consumption

How long will our domestic supply last (if we had the drilling and refinery capacity) with zero imports?

PROVEN RESERVES = 35 months (3 years)

And if we spent the next ten years exploiting every possible oil resource, we're still in trouble.

TOTAL OIL RESERVES (unproven) = 223 months (18 years)

So will boosting fuel efficiency of individual vehicles help resolve the problem?
NO.

There are too many vehicles on the road, under utilized, and wasting fuel (energy).

Their solution?

"Cash for Clunkers"
THIS IS NO SOLUTION - it actually WASTES resources used to create the original vehicle destroyed.

Frankly, even a gas guzzler can be "green".
How to make a "Green" Hummer - pack 5 people in it, and it will almost be as "green" as a one occupant hybrid, in terms of fuel consumed per passenger / miles.
H2 Hummer: 8.6 MPG (worst case) x 5 persons = 43 passenger miles / gallon
Honda Insight: 48 MPG x 1 person = 48 passenger miles / gallon

Add the third row seat, and boost passenger load to 7 and you have a "greenie"!
H2 Hummer: 8.6 MPG (worst case) x 7 persons = 60.2 passenger miles / gallon

The moral is that single occupant commuting is a WASTE no matter what automobile you use. And that running any automobile / SUV / minivan at full load is MORE frugal.

And a fleet of Chevy Dolts won't resolve the problem, either.

We have to become MORE EFFICIENT.

Move more passengers per unit fuel.

Things we know or expect to happen:
[A] Fossil fuels will cease being cheap and / or plentiful.
[b] Energy derived from non-fossil fuel sources is still more expensive. But that may change as [A] gets worse. But at least sustainable sources of energy won't suddenly run out.
[C] The most viable sustainable form of energy is electricity - derived from solar, wind, water, and so on.
[D] The most energy efficient form of land transport is steel wheel on steel rail (low coefficient of rolling resistance).
Internal combustion engines, on average, only use 25% of the energy of their fuel to move. The remainder is lost as waste heat. (Yipes!). Even vaunted hybrid electric vehicles are still energy wasters. To compound matters, stop - and - go travel wastes energy via braking (heat) and acceleration.

Won't the 35.5 MPH goal save us?
NO

We know there are six principles for efficient surface transport:
a) reduce the frontal area per person;
b) reduce the vehicle’s weight per person;
c) when traveling, go at a steady speed and avoid using brakes;
d) travel more slowly;
e) travel less; and
f) make the energy chain more efficient.
An electric powered train / tram / streetcar meets a, b, c (*regenerative braking recovers energy), and f. And we'd rather be able to ignore d and e.

An electric traction motor efficiency is between 85 - 95% (depending on configuration, etc), in contrast with Internal combustion engines (roughly from 25% otto cycle to 50% diesel cycle). In addition, electric powered rail vehicles attached to the grid do not need to carry their fuel, saving on weight.

In short, we need to acknowledge that electric rail is our only viable alternative to deal with the demise of the Age of Oil.
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