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If it were me, I would say that a lack of planning on peoples parts to guarantee their own sustainability does not equal a requirement on my side (nor the side of all tax payers) to guarantee that these people get taken care of.
People want to spout off that healthcare should be an unalienable right. A guarantee. I disagree. Everything costs money. Everybody has to put effort into our society to guarantee that those that contribute have the ability to obtain the things that they need to sustain themselves. If people make poor choices, deciede they don't want to contribute, or find out that they are not providing services to the society valuable enough to sustain their own life, how does that become my problem or the problem of society as a whole?
The bleeding hearts want to based their opinions in regard to healthcare on an emotional level than one based on principle. They want to give the government the authority to take money from some people and give to others who have not been able, by their own doing, to sustain themselves.
We have encouraged the populace of our society to continue to forget the fact that you must give in order to recieve, that the efforts of others to provide a service does not guarantee that everybody has a right to recieve said service.
This downward spiral will eventually lead to a disproportionate amount of the populace reaping the rewards of an educated society on the backs of those educated to perform necessary services until the end result is a breaking point.
We have steamed down this road for several decades. Its time that we get back to the principles which the country was founded on. You have a right to the freedom and protection from the government to sustain yourself, you are guaranteed sustainability by the government.
One of the major holes in your line of reasoning - and it is a MAJOR hole - is that you are assuming that most people, many people, or some people - choose to be poor, or not self-sustaining, or sick, or to be injured on a job, or to lose a job due to a financial meltdown. This is the same typical, callous, blind, socially Darwinian, Dickensian mindset that has contributed greatly to the precipitous financial and social decline we find ourself experiencing right now. More than ever, in this economic climate, people simply cannot contribute, because their jobs have left, and will not return. You seem to be so concerned about the interests of the "contributors", i.e. the rich., but who you need to be concerned about are the ones who, through no fault of their own, cannot take care of themselves to the level that they, or you, feel they should. That's what you need to be worried about. Society is only as strong as its weakest link. Unfortunately for you, the weak are getting weaker.
Help is available, but it is not limitless. And many health issues have a time component. Conditions are progressive, so that the help you find today might have been adequate three months ago, but you have to keep on looking for more resources. That's not always possible, for many there comes a point where their health condition is so pressing that the search for help becomes prohibitive.
And frankly, there are cases where help simply isn't available, and you think you are going in circles because you are. My friend who tried to commit suicide had spent years trying to get assistance for his mental health problems. Take a look at what kind of mental health assistance is available in Arkansas. How many hospitals have wards for the mentally ill? Hardly any. Public clinics that have mental health professionals. Hardly any. Public funding to help the mentally ill indigent? Hardly any. And what resources that are available are quickly consumed and are concentrated in Little Rock.
yeah you're right I guess I wasn't considering all the parameters. Most of the medical attention I needed when I was uninsured was basic and there were plenty of resources but I know that's not always the case.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunil's Dad
you are assuming that most people, many people, or some people - choose to be poor, or not self-sustaining, or sick, or to be injured on a job, or to lose a job due to a financial meltdown.
It's not an assumption. Many people believe that the majority of people choose their circumstances. They chose to buy homes knowing that their partners could die at any moment. They chose to have children knowing that they could be born with handicaps. They chose to buy a new car knowing that they could get laid off at any time. They made those choices and it's no one elses problem that they weren't able to afford them when things changed. That's life. Deal with it or die.
yeah you're right I guess I wasn't considering all the parameters. Most of the medical attention I needed when I was uninsured was basic and there were plenty of resources but I know that's not always the case.
It's not an assumption. Many people believe that the majority of people choose their circumstances. They chose to buy homes knowing that their partners could die at any moment. They chose to have children knowing that they could be born with handicaps. They chose to buy a new car knowing that they could get laid off at any time. They made those choices and it's no one elses problem that they weren't able to afford them when things changed. That's life. Deal with it or die.
Well, whether they assume or believe it, ofttimes they are simply wrong.
It's not an assumption. Many people believe that the majority of people choose their circumstances. They chose to buy homes knowing that their partners could die at any moment. They chose to have children knowing that they could be born with handicaps. They chose to buy a new car knowing that they could get laid off at any time. They made those choices and it's no one elses problem that they weren't able to afford them when things changed. That's life. Deal with it or die.
Then don't complain when they're either on the dole, or committing crimes to get by. Things get rather Machiavellian quite quickly when in survival mode.
Then don't complain when they're either on the dole, or committing crimes to get by. Things get rather Machiavellian quite quickly when in survival mode.
Who's complaining? As I said earlier, I'm sitting here in my subsidized apartment watching HBO and eating scrimps. I have no complaints about the welfare system.
One of the major holes in your line of reasoning - and it is a MAJOR hole - is that you are assuming that most people, many people, or some people - choose to be poor, or not self-sustaining, or sick, or to be injured on a job, or to lose a job due to a financial meltdown. This is the same typical, callous, blind, socially Darwinian, Dickensian mindset that has contributed greatly to the precipitous financial and social decline we find ourself experiencing right now. More than ever, in this economic climate, people simply cannot contribute, because their jobs have left, and will not return. You seem to be so concerned about the interests of the "contributors", i.e. the rich., but who you need to be concerned about are the ones who, through no fault of their own, cannot take care of themselves to the level that they, or you, feel they should. That's what you need to be worried about. Society is only as strong as its weakest link. Unfortunately for you, the weak are getting weaker.
The weak are not getting weaker. It is far easier to stay healthy, perform a service to earn a living, and live comfortably than in any time in our nations history.
We are not weaker. We are lazier.
The government is not a big charity organization. Their job is not to ensure that individuals of our society are ok. Their job is to protect the general welare, which means the majority. Their job is to ensure that the people of this country have the simple ABILITY to sustain themselves, not ensure their sustainability.
We are not a society of heartless, careless, calous, or blind. But we are a society of a simple expectation that people carry their own weight. Simple facts prove that in our society, the number of people that are "unable to" is growing while proportionatly the hand outs increase.
The weak are not getting weaker. It is far easier to stay healthy, perform a service to earn a living, and live comfortably than in any time in our nations history.
We are not weaker. We are lazier.
The government is not a big charity organization. Their job is not to ensure that individuals of our society are ok. Their job is to protect the general welare, which means the majority. Their job is to ensure that the people of this country have the simple ABILITY to sustain themselves, not ensure their sustainability.
We are not a society of heartless, careless, calous, or blind. But we are a society of a simple expectation that people carry their own weight. Simple facts prove that in our society, the number of people that are "unable to" is growing while proportionatly the hand outs increase.
Excuses are excuses.
See above comment:
Quote:
Many people believe that the majority of people choose their circumstances. They chose to buy homes knowing that their partners could die at any moment. They chose to have children knowing that they could be born with handicaps. They chose to buy a new car knowing that they could get laid off at any time. They made those choices and it's no one elses problem that they weren't able to afford them when things changed. That's life. Deal with it or die.
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