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This issue has nothing to do with gays being gay. Be it, live it, love it.
This is about the definition of marriage.
So can you please give me the correct definition of marriage?
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Whether there is proof or not is irrelevent because the FIRST AMENDMENT says that I can believe it with or without your approval.
Once again because I guess you missed it: Amendment I Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.
In other words we disagree.
Okay let's put it to a vote?
Oh wait, California already did that TWICE.
Ah, but you do need to prove it if you intend to use your religious beliefs as fact to back up your claims. You also need it because you are trying to force others to believe as you do, we all know not everyone believes in a higher power. So the laws should be made to be equal to both believers and non-believers.
Yes you can believe in whatever fairy tales that you want, that is your right. No one can and no one should be able to change that, but that right is not just for you and those who believe in a god. That right is for all who live in the USA. Why is it that when a pro same sex marriage supporter uses the bible or the constitution to back up their claim it is considered wrong, outdated, or miss read. But when an anti-same sex marriage supporter uses those same things it is considered hard proof and the final say?
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Once again this is not about the homosexual lifestyle. This is about Marriage and its definition.
in other words you have no answer for me on this, just like I thought. IN no way are they hurting you, in no way do their actions effect you. So why dont you just leave these people be for you gods sake. After all arent you supposed to avoid all things evil, and since you say homosexuals are evil then you should be staying away.
Whats funny is that there are actual issues that you religious people should be concerned about, yet you choose to attack this issue. Seriously, your religion has alot to make up for before it can go telling me how to live my life. Once your churches have confessed to their crimes and made up for their past atrocities will I consider giving them any credibility.
So can you please give me the correct definition of marriage?
Its insulting to your own intelligence that you ask that. Especially in light of the current controversy.
Do you really not know what people opposed to gay marriage think the definition of marriage is??? REALLY?
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Ah, but you do need to prove it if you intend to use your religious beliefs as fact to back up your claims.
You mean the lines between church and state are crossed when it comes to marriage???
EXACTLY. They do cross and therein lies the whole controversy.
Take the words Marriage, Husband and Wife out of all Civil Laws, make all couples gay or straight enter into civil unions that afford equal protections and all the same rights-and this conversation is over.
I won't hold my breath.
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You also need it because you are trying to force others to believe as you do
Actually Im not the one trying to force anything. Its gays who are trying to force themselves into Marriage.
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Yes you can believe in whatever fairy tales that you want, that is your right.
The origin of Marriage is part of the fairy tale.
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Why is it that when a pro same sex marriage supporter uses the bible or the constitution to back up their claim it is considered wrong, outdated, or miss read.
I've never told anyone their beliefs are wrong.
Hey I know-let's put it to a vote and have the people decide
Oh wait-we did. Twice in fact.
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After all arent you supposed to avoid all things evil, and since you say homosexuals are evil then you should be staying away.
Never said anyone is evil.
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Whats funny is that there are actual issues that you religious people should be concerned about, yet you choose to attack this issue
And there are plenty of actual issues that gay people should be concerned about , yet they choose to attack this issue.
in other words you have no answer for me on this, just like I thought. IN no way are they hurting you, in no way do their actions effect you. So why dont you just leave these people be for you gods sake.
To paraphrase Barney Frank, you're trying to argue with a dining room table.
You can continue, of course, but don't get too stressed over it. Some people aren't worth your time and energy.
Its insulting to your own intelligence that you ask that. Especially in light of the current controversy.
Do you really not know what people opposed to gay marriage think the definition of marriage is??? REALLY?
Highlighted the major flaw in your argument. What you think the definition of marriage is is very different from what other people think the definition of marriage is. So, unless you can prove otherwise, these people should be allowed to get married. Sort of an innocent until proven guilty thing.
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Originally Posted by 18Montclair
You mean the lines between church and state are crossed when it comes to marriage???
EXACTLY. They do cross and therein lies the whole controversy.
Take the words Marriage, Husband and Wife out of all Civil Laws, make all couples gay or straight enter into civil unions that afford equal protections and all the same rights-and this conversation is over.
I won't hold my breath.
Wow... Do you really think that marriage is a solely a religious ceremony? Or that the actual origin of marriage has anything to do with God or the church? Such ignorance shows why so many people think lowly of the christian conservative party. Just like in civil rights times, separate but equal is not equal. You want to treat people differently because they were not born to be just like you.
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Originally Posted by 18Montclair
Actually Im not the one trying to force anything. Its gays who are trying to force themselves into Marriage.
Lol force themselves into marriage? You mean... gay people want to get married? cuz thats what you are trying to twist those words into meaning. And you have yet to come up with a logical, reasonable answer to why they shouldn't be able to.
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Originally Posted by 18Montclair
The origin of Marriage is part of the fairy tale.
This literally could not be farther from the truth. Marriage was being practiced by humans thousands of years before Jesus was born. Again, the ignorance in your post should be enough to convince America that your side has absolutely no idea what they're talking about.
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Originally Posted by 18Montclair
Hey I know-let's put it to a vote and have the people decide
If we had a vote in America to ban racist publications and to make neo-naziism a federal offense, it would pass in a landslide. However, those are constitutional rights and no one should be allowed to take those away, no matter how much you disagree, as long as they aren't hurting anyone.
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Originally Posted by 18Montclair
And there are plenty of actual issues that gay people should be concerned about , yet they choose to attack this issue.
Not being able to get married to someone you're in love with is a major issue. Persecuting people that your unproven god has supposedly said are immoral is not an actual issue.
Its insulting to your own intelligence that you ask that. Especially in light of the current controversy.
Do you really not know what people opposed to gay marriage think the definition of marriage is??? REALLY?
I know what the definition of marriage is to me. I want to know what is it for you. If all you have to say is that it is a sacred bond between one man and one woman then we are done here. Because that is a joke, people these days have no idea what makes a marriage work
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You mean the lines between church and state are crossed when it comes to marriage???
EXACTLY. They do cross and therein lies the whole controversy.
Marriage was around way before religion. Religion just made a new name for it. The religious term is actually holy matrimony.
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Take the words Marriage, Husband and Wife out of all Civil Laws, make all couples gay or straight enter into civil unions that afford equal protections and all the same rights-and this conversation is over.
Works for me.
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Actually Im not the one trying to force anything. Its gays who are trying to force themselves into Marriage.
Thats what they said when black people wanted equal rights to.
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The origin of Marriage is part of the fairy tale.
I've never told anyone their beliefs are wrong.
the origin of marriage was before the bible and there is no proof that religion started the whole marriage thing.
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Hey I know-let's put it to a vote and have the people decide
Oh wait-we did. Twice in fact.
Yes the first time it passed and same sex marriage was okay. Then a RELIGIOUS group from an out of state church started campaigning to have it repealed. They spent millions to deceive the people and when it finally came to another vote most people where to busy looking for jobs and thought the issue was over with, thus they did not vote.
If you where to vote again without outside interference you would get a vote in favor of same sex marriage. Also, this was just for California, if it came to a national vote it would also be in favor of same sex marriages.
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And there are plenty of actual issues that gay people should be concerned about , yet they choose to attack this issue.
Actually persecution is an issue for a group to be concerned. They are being harasses at every turn. They want equal rights and I see nothing wrong with that. If they didnt have opposition from the religious front this issue would be over with and we could all focus on more important issues. So, if you want it to be over with, support the gay community and allow them the same rights that you are allowed.
There is absolutely no doubt that he will win, considering that the opposing side doesn't have a legal argument to support them. This is their whole argument right here:
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Chuck Cooper, who is representing proponents of California’s ban, argues that such a “radical redefinition of the ancient institution of marriage†would require the court to find a right that does not exist in the Constitution — the very type of judicial activism Mr. Olson has long decried.
If he sticks with that, he'll be laughed right the hell out of court. This guy is an attorney? He doesn't know that our Constitution doesn't GIVE rights, it outlines the ways the government is not allowed to ABRIDGE rights? Not to mention, the U.S. Constitution doesn't give a hoot about "ancient institutions" as precedent. It likes prior rulings and laws as precedent, such as in the case of Loving, where the U.S. Supreme Court has already declared
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Originally Posted by Loving v Virginia
Marriage is one of the "basic civil rights of man," fundamental to our very existence and survival.... To deny this fundamental freedom on so unsupportable a basis as the racial classifications embodied in these statutes, classifications so directly subversive of the principle of equality at the heart of the Fourteenth Amendment, is surely to deprive all the State's citizens of liberty without due process of law. The Fourteenth Amendment requires that the freedom of choice to marry not be restricted by invidious racial discrimination. Under our Constitution, the freedom to marry, or not marry, a person of another race resides with the individual and cannot be infringed by the State.
And the religious morons had tried to use the same, tired "G-d" argument then, too.
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Originally Posted by Their absurd argument
Almighty G-d created the races white, black, yellow, malay and red, and he placed them on separate continents. And but for the interference with his arrangement there would be no cause for such marriages. The fact that he separated the races shows that he did not intend for the races to mix.
Well then, Mr. White Folks, head your butts back to Europe and give the United States back to the red man who your G-d gave this land to by virtue of placing them here, separate from you!
Well, except that your entire premise is flawed since the continents weren't always separated, modern humans first appeared in equatorial Africa some 200,000 years ago, and white skin is an "adaptive mechanism" that only emerged after northern migration required a better ability to absorb vitamin D from the sun.
They've lost before even setting a foot inside the courtroom.
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Originally Posted by 18Montclair
Take the words Marriage, Husband and Wife out of all Civil Laws, make all couples gay or straight enter into civil unions that afford equal protections and all the same rights-and this conversation is over.
Dude, you are not the decider of the definition of words. Words and their definitions are ever evolving, too. A perfect example is this here thingie you're communicating through. Prior to 1990, no dictionary in the world would include among its definitions of 'web', a network of interlinked servers that allowed communication between individual computers.
That is another thing, no one has ever given a valid reason how the homosexual lifestyle hurts anyone outside the relationship? Will someone please finally answer this for me?
Good luck w/that one. I've been asking that for months on here & surprise surprise, not one person can answer it. They just like to say "because".
Take the words Marriage, Husband and Wife out of all Civil Laws, make all couples gay or straight enter into civil unions that afford equal protections and all the same rights-and this conversation is over.
Works for me.
Thank You Very Much.
I think its time people with our common mindset put an end to this insanity. Just because we disagree vehemently with each other doesnt mean there isnt a solution that suits us both.
I wonder if there are other people out there who think this is a good idea?
Ah, I see how it works for you. Facts mean nothing to you; just mob rule. Got it.
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