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Old 10-16-2009, 07:04 PM
 
Location: Wisconsin
37,981 posts, read 22,172,656 times
Reputation: 13811

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I have always held the position that if democratic party politicians actually told the American people the truth of what they wanted to do, they would be a small and insignificant minority party.

Since he started running for president, 0bama has been reluctant to tell us what he really wants to do with our nation's health care system, so lets look at those he has advising him are in effect saying for him.

First there is Ezekiel Emmanuel:

In January, 2009, Dr. Emanuel published a paper about his vision, The Complete Lives System: "Principles for allocation of scarce medical interventions."

Quote:
When implemented, the complete lives system produces a priority curve on which individuals aged between roughly 15 and 40 years get the most substantial chance, whereas the youngest and oldest people get chances that are attenuated (Graph attached).



Unlike allocation by sex or race, allocation by age is not invidious discrimination; every person lives through different life stages rather than being a single age. Even if 25-year-olds receive priority over 65-year-olds, everyone who is 65 years now was previously 25 years.16 Treating 65-year olds differently because of stereotypes or falsehoods would be ageist; treating them diff erently because they have already had more life-years is not.
Then we have Dr. David Blumenthal:

Dr. David Blumenthal is 0bama's new National Coordinator of Health-information Technology. He recommends slowing medical innovation to control health spending. Blumenthal has long advocated government health-spending controls, but even he admits they will be "associated with longer waits" and "reduced availability of new and expensive treatments and devices" (New England Journal of Medicine, March 8, 2001).


And lastly we have Robert Reich:

Robert Reich, former Labor Secretary under Bill Clinton and an adviser to President Barack 0bama. In the below audio clip, Reich muses over what brave democrat politicians would say to the American, if elections did not matter.

-Younger people should pay more

-Healthier people should pay more

-Older people should just die- they're "too expensive" to keep healthy

-There should be "less innovation" in medical technology

-You should not expect to live longer than your parents.

Curious isn't it, that this is exactly what two other 0bama advisers are saying too. 0bama believes in all of this too, but he won't come out and say it, because he and his fellow democrats in Washington want to be elected, but his advisers can say these things because they are simply appointed by the democrats.

With 0bama's recent actions, to cut $500 billion from Medicare, he has all but stated the same thing as his advisers, that spending money on senior citizens is "too expensive".


YouTube - Robert Reich: What An Honest President Would Say About Health Reform
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Old 10-16-2009, 07:20 PM
 
7,359 posts, read 10,282,499 times
Reputation: 1893
Obama has no secret agenda. Neither does the Democratic party. People like you have always existed in the history of our country. The type of paranoia you exhibit is the type of paranoia that kept blacks enslaved, that sent Japanese Americans into internment camps, that blacklisted people during the McCarthy era, and that compares Obama to a nefarious Nazi or Stalinist engaged--with the help of his evil, smooth-talking minions-- in some secret horrifying anti-American plot to ruin America. It's the same old thing.

But just for kicks. . . .

First, who cares what Ezekiel Emmanuel has to say? (Aside from the fact that his comments were taken entirely out of context and twisted).

Second, could we please have the context--once again--for Dr. Blumenthal's words?

Third, what you've written about Reich's comments is--yet again--decontextualized and twisted.

Seriously, the far right conspiracy theorists need psychiatric help. Immediately.
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Old 10-16-2009, 07:37 PM
 
9,855 posts, read 10,418,899 times
Reputation: 2881
[quote=MovingForward;11223003]Obama has no secret agenda. Neither does the Democratic party.

Really.............? What happened to the transparency Obama and Nancy Pelosi were so quick to blab about during the election?
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Old 10-16-2009, 07:55 PM
 
1,008 posts, read 2,080,108 times
Reputation: 793
Democrats and Republicans are BOTH crooked people.

Wake up and realize this. Stop supporting either party.
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Old 10-16-2009, 07:56 PM
 
Location: Charlotte, NC
1,419 posts, read 2,456,282 times
Reputation: 1371
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheCaliforniaBear View Post
Democrats and Republicans are BOTH crooked people.

Wake up and realize this. Stop supporting either party.
Thats exactly why I didnt vote for a damn person this past election and I sure dont feel about it either. People in this country are so blind...
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Old 10-16-2009, 07:59 PM
 
7,359 posts, read 10,282,499 times
Reputation: 1893
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheCaliforniaBear View Post
Democrats and Republicans are BOTH crooked people.

Wake up and realize this. Stop supporting either party.
I'm sorry, but I don't agree with you. I believe that the MAJORITY of Democrats and Republicans are bought. But I also know that there are true public servants in both parties who are trying to find a public voice. To dismiss both parties--out of hand--is not the answer.
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Old 10-16-2009, 08:01 PM
 
7,359 posts, read 10,282,499 times
Reputation: 1893
Quote:
Originally Posted by princesasabia View Post
Thats exactly why I didnt vote for a damn person this past election and I sure dont feel about it either. People in this country are so blind...
Don't be so condescending. We're not blind. We just believe in the democratic process. It's been corrupted--horribly. But to not vote, to just walk away is the height of irresponsibility, in my opinion.
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Old 10-16-2009, 08:35 PM
 
1,008 posts, read 2,080,108 times
Reputation: 793
Quote:
Originally Posted by MovingForward View Post
Don't be so condescending. We're not blind. We just believe in the democratic process. It's been corrupted--horribly. But to not vote, to just walk away is the height of irresponsibility, in my opinion.
Why not support a third party?

Instead of a two-party system the USA would be much better off with 5 or 6 different parties competing.

I believe in the Democratic process too if the conditions are gith for it, it would work well. But right now in America the conditions need to be changed in order for the Democratic process to work properly.
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Old 10-16-2009, 08:37 PM
 
1,008 posts, read 2,080,108 times
Reputation: 793
Quote:
Originally Posted by MovingForward View Post
I'm sorry, but I don't agree with you. I believe that the MAJORITY of Democrats and Republicans are bought. But I also know that there are true public servants in both parties who are trying to find a public voice. To dismiss both parties--out of hand--is not the answer.
So, you are saying that the majority of Democrats and Republicans are bought.

Then you say that dismissing these parties is not the answer?

Makes no sense to me. if the majoirty of them are bought then dismissing them would seem to be the answer to me.
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Old 10-16-2009, 08:39 PM
 
7,359 posts, read 10,282,499 times
Reputation: 1893
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheCaliforniaBear View Post
Why not support a third party?

Instead of a two-party system the USA would be much better off with 5 or 6 different parties competing.

I believe in the Democratic process too if the conditions are gith for it, it would work well. But right now in America the conditions need to be changed in order for the Democratic process to work properly.
I believe that our two-party system is broken, and I have voted for a third party in the past. I believe it would be dangerous, however, to do so now. The country is too divided. And the reason that the party system is broken is because of campaign finance laws. In my opinion, the single most important thing we can do to fix the system is to institute public financing of campaigns and term limits for Congress. This would severely reduce lobbying efficacy, as well as the corporatization of politics.
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