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Because you are trying to discourage violence toward a particular class of people who are more vulnerable to violence than others due to their race or sexual orientation. It's done as a deterrant.
All crime is based on hate simply because someone yells vulgar words at the victim does not make it worse. Hate crime laws do not deter idiots. Someone who is going to kill is still going to kill. Someone that gets into a fight with a gay person is not going to stop beating him up because of some law. People with anger inside of them will still commit crimes and these laws only remove some of the heinousness from an exact crime against someone who does not fall under "hate crime" laws.
He/she is always trying to start something. I would like to see where the right wing is as hateful or as narrow minded as the left.
Nita
Likewise, I’ve noticed personal attacks from wingnuts who I corrected or exposed in previous threads. For example, you had the gaul to argue that a 15 kids who stood by and willingly observed a rape for 2 hours was the same as a person in a riot who happened to witness violent acts. After I exposed the weakness of that argument, you later recanted your view and admitted you provided a bad example. These are the type of deserpate arguments made in order to simply oppose or contradict the status quo. I don’t think many reasonable people would fail to understand how crimes against homsexual would be a hate crime. They don’t have to approve of homosexuality as a lifestyle to understand there are people who commits acts of violence against them for their sexual orientation.
All crime is based on hate simply because someone yells vulgar words at the victim does not make it worse. Hate crime laws do not deter idiots. Someone who is going to kill is still going to kill. Someone that gets into a fight with a gay person is not going to stop beating him up because of some law. People with anger inside of them will still commit crimes and these laws only remove some of the heinousness from an exact crime against someone who does not fall under "hate crime" laws.
That isn't the point. It's labeled a hate crime to include more severe punishments to deter these crimes since certain people are more prone to sufferring from crime or being victimized due to their race and now sexual orientation. It's not about saying one crime is more severe than another. It's simply about protecting citizens who are more prone to crime.
I know, it's such a far fetched concept to label a hate crime as one committing hateful acts against people for their sexual orientation. What a dumb concept. Crimes against homosexuals are just a coincidence and just like any other crime committed against an innocent. There is no such thing as bigotry against homosexuals in this country. What was I thinking?
Laws serving to protect one from force and fraud from human interactions are acceptable. Laws that do more than that are not.
When you start regulating thought, you start treading in very dangerous waters. In fact, your original post that people are wing-nuts if they don't agree with you who are insane is enticing flaming and an open display of animosity towards a group of people. Ironic, for someone who is defending hate crime laws.
I know bigotry exists and I want DADT and DOMA repealed, but unlike you I believe in "equal protection under the law"", not "special treatment".
Last edited by I Like Taxes; 10-27-2009 at 09:06 PM..
You are comparing the hostility and violence toward homosexuals to a red headed kid in your class being beat up and called carrot cake. Interesting
My question was contingent on the following statement:
Quote:
Are the crimes against them less important even if the outcome is equally severe?
So, are the crimes against other groups less important if the outcome is equally severe?
Also, you appear to lessen the circumstance of the red headed kid being beaten without knowing anything about the incident , so lets consider that assumption concerning for instance of a gay kid.
Let us say that a gay kid is beat equally as the red headed kid. With this hate crime law, do the bullies get punished more severely? Why? What is different concerning the hate for the gay kid versus the red headed pasty kid? What justifies one as more "severe" than the other if the violation is equally severe (both are beaten to the same level of injury)?
Because you are trying to discourage violence toward a particular class of people who are more vulnerable to violence than others due to their race or sexual orientation. It's done as a deterrant.
Is that not special treatment? Is murder less severe in other cases? When did lady justice get glasses and a list of conditions to discriminate with?
Because some victims are more vulnerable and prone to being victimized due to their status than others. We all know that. There needs to be these types of laws to deter these acts from being committed.
Like "rich" people? Yes we definitely need to get cracking on the vast amount of "hate crimes" against those people.
My question is...if someone murders a random stranger, and someone else murders a gay person in exactly the same way, why is the murder of the random stranger any less tragic than that of the gay person?
ANY crime can be hateful crime, but having "hate crimes" just gives some people more value under the law than others. So...I'm opposed to the idea of different punishments for hate crimes. I think the punishment for a crime should be equal across the board, and be based on the severity of the crime, not the color of the victim's skin, their sexual identity, or anything else.
That said, if we MUST have a "hate crimes" designation...then crimes against gays should be included.
More reason to get rid of Democrats and overturn these kind of crazy laws that give special rights to certain people.
My question is...if someone murders a random stranger, and someone else murders a gay person in exactly the same way, why is the murder of the random stranger any less tragic than that of the gay person?
ANY crime can be hateful crime, but having "hate crimes" just gives some people more value under the law than others. So...I'm opposed to the idea of different punishments for hate crimes. I think the punishment for a crime should be equal across the board, and be based on the severity of the crime, not the color of the victim's skin, their sexual identity, or anything else.
That said, if we MUST have a "hate crimes" designation...then crimes against gays should be included.
While I agree that all murders are hateful, not all murders are motivated by hate. Interviews with people on death row have indicated that many victims were simply in the wrong place at the wrong time; the murderer had no emotional attachment to the victim, positive or negative.
Perpetrators of hate crimes, by definition, have an emotional attachment to their victims and are motivated by their negative emotions to commit their crimes. Trying to suggest that these are only 'thought' crimes is ridiculous - if they were simply thought crimes, there would be no physical manifestation (i.e. a dead or broken body) of these thoughts.
It is truly sad that there is a need for this legislation, but need it we do:
"More than 77,000 hate crime incidents were reported by the FBI between 1998 and 2007, or "nearly one hate crime for every hour of every day over the span of a decade," Holder told the Senate Judiciary Committee in June."
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