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Old 11-03-2009, 09:22 AM
 
886 posts, read 2,225,764 times
Reputation: 325

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For the average US citizen chasing the American Dream, globalization I believe does more harm then good. Do people really feel we have control over our own country when other countries can purchase huge quantities of our assets to artifically keep the dollar value low?

Our GDP is large, but since the US doesn't produce anything anymore (i'm generalizing of course) it's based on numbers on paper. The news yesterday talked about how great it was Ford made a profit and expects profitability through all of next year, and that's great... however I found it sad that their profit came from layoffs and cutting pensions.

This countries founders never wanted us to become what we are today. Thomas Jefferson said ""peace, commerce, and honest friendship with all nations, entangling alliances with none." Keep in mind when speaking of commerce with other nations then, it is not th same as we have now.

In the 1970s the largest US employer was GM, with the average salary adjusted for inflation being $60,000/year. Today the largest US employer is Wal-mart, with an average salary of around $17,000/year. Wake up people how can anyone accept this?

We lost manufacturing jobs to overseas, the equivalent today of the factory worker is the phone support agent, which is also slowly moving overseas. Accountability is lost because companies contract and subcontract, etc.. who is responsible for what?

Obamas administration revised the "buy American" wording in the bailout because Europe whined. I see that is complete failure when we allow other nations to dictate what we do, and loss of soverignty.

What would happen if we imposed tariffs on imported goods? What if we taxed companies at higher rates who outsource or import from overseas? I'm not against importing goods, but I am against importing goods that we have access to already, and it should be illegal to send jobs overseas that can be done here because another countries allows sweatshops with near slave-labor to produce goods.

Some people say if we taxed the corporations or found ways to keep the jobs here, they would pack their bags and head overseas. I say so what... good riddance. Just because a company leaves doesn't mean demand goes with them, and where is there is demand there will always be someone who is going to bring in supply.

We have become accustomed to low cost products, but would you really care if you paid more for things made in the USA? We are approaching 10% unemployment and 18% underemployment rate. How many jobs could be created if Gap, Abercrombie, Nike, Apple, etc... all opened factories in the US to create their products instead? Some products definitely would go up in price but how much? I looked through my closest to compare some cost, I have a Hoodie from Abercrombie that cost $60 made in Vietnam, and another by Element that cost $35 made in the USA.

As a whole if we embraced recycling, buying more green products, removed ourselves from globalization, we could gain a better quality of life. I support Capitalism and the free market, but only to some extent.... as we have seen over and over again Corporate greed doesn't care about who it hurts or exploits.

Even gas wouldn't be as much of a problem if we built our cities better. If neighborhoods were built around neighborhood centers that provided most general products needed (groceries, movies, resteraunts, general goods, etc...) they don't even have to be huge just basic, and then design neighborhoods to connect to the cities center or downtown where things can be expanded. It would improve community, health (because it would more walkable), and lower fuel consumption.

Are we worried nations won't want to trade with us? Much of our wealth deosn't come from exports. We exported $1.84 trillion and imported $2.52 trillion. Exports make up 13.1% of our GDP, however the cost of imports make up an even larger portion. We can lose in exports to other countries at the cost of increased jobs and production in our own... it would be a gain not a loss.

Besides the gains from isolationism, consider the current consequences we have. Look at the financial crisis... the problem is we should not allow any corporation to become so large that when it fails it effects our whole economy... not just the US economy but the global economy.
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Old 11-03-2009, 09:43 AM
 
Location: US
1,193 posts, read 3,992,825 times
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Sure we can try that again.

Smoot–Hawley Tariff Act - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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Old 11-03-2009, 09:53 AM
 
6,565 posts, read 14,293,134 times
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Well, I wouldn't mind us going to more isolationist policies, but unfortunately I think that ship has sailed.... Due to most of our major corporations outsourcing to foreign countries and the fact that our national debt is financed by foreign nations, I'd say it'd be a bit difficult to attempt a switch to isolationism now....
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Old 11-03-2009, 10:15 AM
 
886 posts, read 2,225,764 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by J Arp View Post

Nice response.... except for the fact that in the 1930s the US exported almost twice as much as it imported and it made up a larger portion of our GDP.

The state we are in now is not equivalent to the 1930s. This also ignores what I states about how we should not have excessive entanglement... that includes our stock market. The Great Depression was global just as the "Great Recession" has been.... the size and influence of many financial corporations have played a role in this... which is why I said they shouldn't be allowed to get so big that their collapse effects the global community.
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Old 11-03-2009, 10:19 AM
 
886 posts, read 2,225,764 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rhett_Butler View Post
Well, I wouldn't mind us going to more isolationist policies, but unfortunately I think that ship has sailed.... Due to most of our major corporations outsourcing to foreign countries and the fact that our national debt is financed by foreign nations, I'd say it'd be a bit difficult to attempt a switch to isolationism now....
So our policies can't change because we are at the mercy of other countries who own so much of our debt...

This is what needs to change. I agree with you it would be difficult... but certainly not impossible. The biggest challenge I would see is the fact that our politics are dominated by the good old boy network. We have the same people in power, republican or democrat on the same CEOs payroll. The oligarchy must be removed before change really happen...

With their wealth and power they control the media, but the Internet is still free, and the best source of information.... would it not be possible for an electronic revolution to bring about new ideas that leads to replacing the current ruling class in American?
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Old 11-03-2009, 10:28 AM
 
Location: Londonderry, NH
41,479 posts, read 59,768,722 times
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The OP has it right. We need countervailing tariffs to eliminate the price differences attributable to wage, working conditions, pollution control and government subsidy in imported goods. Then we need to restore the 1930 income tax rates to provide more money for small investors and businessmen while reducing our national debt. We also need to stop protecting our overseas investors with our exhausting military presence all over the world. We need to get completely out of the Middle East.

We do need to isolate our economy until we recover the industrial capacity to resume exporting instead of wanton importing on debt. We need to stop being consumers of the world’s junk and resume being producers of the world’s machinery.
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Old 11-03-2009, 10:32 AM
 
Location: Washington DC
5,922 posts, read 8,064,204 times
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Economic isolation will not work. We will all be poorer for the attempt. American companies need to learn to compete, not be protected from competition.
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Old 11-03-2009, 10:37 AM
 
Location: Londonderry, NH
41,479 posts, read 59,768,722 times
Reputation: 24863
Good idea but the companies will learn how to produce with workers at minimum wage without any pensions or health insurance. Please remember Boston is not Bombay and I do not want competition between monopolies to drive us to third world poverty level. When their wages and industrial standards get to our level the tariffs will end. Until then we all need the protection.

Economic parity is not isolation and we all will benefit except for some of our rapacious investor class.
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Old 11-03-2009, 10:39 AM
 
Location: Gone
25,231 posts, read 16,933,215 times
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Isolationism got us WWI. It does not work and being that our economy is so closely tied to the rest of the world it is not even possible.
Casper
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Old 11-03-2009, 10:47 AM
 
886 posts, read 2,225,764 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rlchurch View Post
Economic isolation will not work. We will all be poorer for the attempt. American companies need to learn to compete, not be protected from competition.
Is the US not large enough for competition within our country?

How do we compete with production when other countries do not set the same standards for the treatment of its workforce that the US does?
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