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When people talk about losing freedoms I'm scratching my head. It seems to be they are mostly talking about a selfish attitude where they don't want to pay their fair share of the taxes it takes to run a country and it's mostly coming from the me-first generation.
Yeah, that's them alright. They want all the benefits of society but don't want any of the costs. A bunch of spoiled brats and whiners is about as much as they really amount to...
If anything, we have more freedom than ever before. I'm always hearing and reading at how America is losing it's freedom and that we're turning communist, and yaya yaya. Back in the 1800s, black people weren't even treated as people, they're were regarded as property and animals. Sure doesn't sound like much freedom, does it? Up until the 1920s, women were not legally allowed to vote. In the 1920s, up until the early '30s, we had Prohibition, when it was illegal to drink. In the 1950s, women were excluded from several job professions and many colleges even banned women from entering and applying for their colleges. And in the 1950s, many states gave husbands total control over family finances. Women were frequently denied the right to serve on jury duties, convey property, make contracts, take out credit cards in their own names, or establish residence. Spousal rape and beating was legal and was considered okay. You used to be legally allowed to discriminate and harm people of other races. Whites and blacks were not even allowed to be married, and in some cases, were not even allowed to be together at all. Also, in the 1950s blacks and other minority groups and white students were segregated in schools, they even had separate public drinking fountains, separate bathrooms, separate seating areas on buses, etc. The KKK group used to be much more prevalent and larger than it is today, thankfully. Before the 1970s, in some areas of the country, teenager girls who pregnant if they did not marry were forced to live with a distant relative for the duration of their pregnancy and give their babies up for adoption and come back home and never speak of their pregnancies again, today we have groups to support unwed teenager mothers, unfortunately. Today, we have our first multiracial president, something that would have been a huge shock 50 years.
We are definitely NOT losing our freedom. If you want to know what a country with no freedom is like, go to Iran, Afghanistan, China, Korea, Africa, etc.
jUST BECAUSE WE GAIN FREEDOMS DOES NOT MEAN WE CANT LOOSE THEM AGAIN.IF THE GOVERNMENT IS GIVING US EVERYTHING LIKE HEALTH CARE, WELFARE, HOUSING, A JOB.IF THEY RUN SHORT ON CASH WHAT DO YOU THINK THEY ARE GOING TO DO TO ALL THE STUFF THEY ARE GIVING OUT,THEY ARE GOING TO HAVE TO RATION IT OUT THAT TEENAGER WHO BECOME PREGNANT MIGHT HAVE TO GO AND HIDE FROM THE GOVERNMENT TO HAVE HER BABY BECAUSE TEY DONT WANT MORE PEOPLE ON THIER FREE HEALTH CARE AND FREE WELFARE AND FREE HOUSING AND YOUR IN CHINA
Actually, to use this argument as to why centralized government works is also absured.
What does it take to "run" a country? Are we talking about roads, schools, and police force? Those are not the taxes the federal government takes in. Those are paid for by the localities they benefit.
You may be scratching your head, but at least you have a head to scratch. Ask the millions we have killed in the name of freedom and democracy. Of course, you cannot. This is what our centralized taxes have bought. Weapons! An empire the likes the world has never seen in her recorded history.
We have the technology to do almost anything we set our minds to do. It is only in this time, in this history, that this has been achievable. Instead, what do we do? Fight. We fight with religions, we fight with other farms(governments), and we fight for these false ideologies sacrificing our sons and daughters. And while we allow this absurdity to happen, we salute those who lead them to the slaughter. We salute those who drop massive bombs, killings thousands. We salute and then pick out of a hat, with a couple of names, who will be our new leader,,,of this farm.
And you say it is this me-first generation? How dare you label those of us who care about our children, and our children's children as being selfish, and self serving. We are a mess of a country. Our children are laden with debt, before they are even born. To the tune of hundreds of thousands. And we allow this. You allow this. Why? For a freakin bowl of stew. Reminds me of Essau selling his birthright. God hated him for this.
Wake up!
People always wonder how Hitler did what he did, and why the German people did nothing to stop it. I wonder what people will write about this country, in this time,,,a hundred years from now. And I am not comparing Hitler to Obama. I am looking at how the respective governments CONNED the people into believing the lies.
Yes, I’m talking about things like roads, schools and universities, bridges and interstate highways, police and fire protection, airports, the FDA, FCC, and FDA, the military and Homeland Security, the library system, the transportation department, the environmental protection and public safety departments, voting and elections, etc., etc., etc.
Yes, I’m thankful I have a head to scratch. I’ve lost family to WWII. I’ve lost LOTS of friends and family to Vietnam and a few to Iraq. War is terrible and I don’t disagree with you that we shouldn’t be fighting most of the wars we do. I did my fair share of protesting the Vietnam War and the Iraq War. We don't need any more hot-headed, cowboy type leaders in this country.
But when I see people complaining about "losing freedom” I don’t see them putting that in the context of fighting in wars they don’t agree with. I see them talking about “losing freedom” regarding the money taken out of their paychecks for so-called “redistribution”. That’s what I call self-centered. They don’t want to pay for any of the entitlement programs or for any of the safety nets that they, themselves, might need some day. If that shoe doesn’t fit you, don’t wear it. If I’m not describing you, then don’t get your self all worked up about my words. Sure, these programs have some flaws that need fixing but when the Tea Baggers and militia groups talk about over-throwing the government to fix those flaws, then they are talking about taking away my rights and everyone else’s who believe in the peaceful transfer of power every four or eight years.
Last edited by Wayland Woman; 12-05-2009 at 08:55 AM..
Reason: spelling errors
With all due respect, where exactly are the above rights listed...
ability is not a right.
Conservatives are happy to point out that Health Care is not a Right granted by the Consitution...yet you fail to list one "right" We have lost to date...
Unless the SC slipped one by me, I think you still have your Second ammendment rights...
read the op-- its say freedoms not rights. i feel i have lost these freedoms and will and have been punished bek of it.
they were not laws they are freedoms. lots of people in jail for firearms use, 2nd amendment did not change, interpretation of self defense changed.
dear friend, please read the post 1st then reprimand.
if it still does not make sense give me a chance to try to explain.
great freedom requires great responsibility.
it seems folks will give up the former for fear of the later.
both political sides use fear to take advantage of this
our resources are wasted in the process
only reason and responsibility at all levels breaks the cycle, and i'm sure any civilization has done that over the long term in modern history
Yes, I’m talking about things like roads, schools and universities, bridges and interstate highways, police and fire protection, airports, the FDA, FCC, and FDA, the military and Homeland Security, the library system, the transportation department, the environmental protection and public safety departments, voting and elections, etc., etc., etc.
Yes, I’m thankful I have a head to scratch. I’ve lost family to WWII. I’ve lost LOTS of friends and family to Vietnam and a few to Iraq. War is terrible and I don’t disagree with you that we shouldn’t be fighting most of the wars we do. I did my fair share of protesting the Vietnam War and the Iraq War. We don't need any more hot-headed, cowboy type leaders in this country.
But when I see people complaining about "losing freedom” I don’t see them putting that in the context of fighting in wars they don’t agree with. I see them talking about “losing freedom” regarding the money taken out of their paychecks for so-called “redistribution”. That’s what I call self-centered. They don’t want to pay for any of the entitlement programs or for any of the safety nets that they, themselves, might need some day. If that shoe doesn’t fit you, don’t wear it. If I’m not describing you, then don’t get your self all worked up about my words. Sure, these programs have some flaws that need fixing but when the Tea Baggers and militia groups talk about over-throwing the government to fix those flaws, then they are talking about taking away my rights and everyone else’s who believe in the peaceful transfer of power every four or eight years.
Overthrowing the government will not work. Why? Because those who did, will institute more government. You know, like the founders did with the British. Even though they may have been benevolent in their passions, they left out the clauses which have enslaved those they fought to free.
And as for "redistriibution"? It is theft, pure and simple. What is the difference between the slave or the woman in the 1700s,,,and the worker of today? The slave was given a place to live,,,food to eat,,,and was provided for, because if they got sick or were unhappy and fled,,the plantation was at a loss,,for property, and production.
Hmm, sound familiar? All that has happened in the last 300 years,,,is the plantation was enlarged, so that it has no competition.
As far as losing family to wars? Yea,,,we all have them, unless you are new to this country. Mine has been here since the late 1700s. So, we have seen what happens when government requires ore and more control, to the point of theft. All it leaves in it's wake,,is serfdom. And now they want to take what I earn, and give it to someone who won't work? Or someone who won't stop having kids? Or someone who thinks they "deserve" something for nothing? Please... Charity begins in the heart. It begins locally.
How do we pay for roads, and while paying for roads through taxes, justify the killing of innocent people? Is the road now worth it?
How do we teach our children that love, honor, and moral duty is the utmost virtue of serving your fellow citizens,,,and then watch as bombs go off in another country wiping our schools and other children? Or whole families?
How do we learn that the mafia we call government, is to be more feared than a boogie man half way across the globe? You think another madman would EVER try to overthrow this country? We have nukes. And actually, once our nuclear weapons were built and secured,,,the standing armies of the world should have ALL disarmed.
You were once a protester? Cool! Why did you stop? What were you protesting, and why did you eventually give in? I know growing old doesn't help. The old age security seems important, but really,,,is it? Is it worth the trade off? Do folks who are about to retire care aboutt those kids who are paying into a system that has a 90% chance of not being there when they retire? And if it isn't,,,is not that called theft?
So, enough of the rant. I mean no offense, except to put out the ideas that we NEED a nanny to look after us, when I feel that we are far more intelligent a society to look after ourselves.
I do have some sympathy for young people who don’t like seeing part of their paychecks disappear to the federal government because I can remember feeling the exact same way back when I was in my twenties. When I got my first pay check (at 17) I remember asking my dad, “Who the heck is this FICA guy taking my money?” I couldn’t see far enough into the future to know that none of us are invincible and we are all subject to needing those safety nets we grumble about paying into the system for---even at a young age through unforeseen disabilities or accidents.
The simple fact is that people in their 20s and 30s aren’t prone to save/invest for their 70s and 80s and never will be. Even if they did save/invest, what are they going to do if the bottom falls out of the market when they need to cash out the most? Someone will still have to take care of those elderly caught in a down market. If not Social Security and Medicare that burden will fall to their kids and grandkids so you’ll still end up paying it forward hoping your kids and grandkids will do the same for you one day. Sure, Social Security and Medicare have problems. The general fund has been raiding S.S. for years and fraud and abuse in Medicare has been ignored too long. But those things can be fixed, part of which health care reform is trying to address.
You ask “if folks about to retire care about the kids who are paying into a system that has a 90% chance of not being there when they retire.” 1) I believe the system can be fixed and it will be there for younger people. Reform is now a priority with our governing body and it will get done. 2) People like my husband and I paid into that system for over 50 years each so we’re really just using the money we paid forward in the first place. 3) As nice sounding as it is to think an “intelligent society” can look after themselves, it won’t happen. There will always be irresponsible people who live in the moment and won’t save for the future. We can’t even get young people to quit living on credit. There will always be people not mentally capable of grasping the investment market so they won’t lose their shirts or get cheated out of their money. Call it a nanny state if you like, but it works better than trusting individuals.
Yeah, we should learn from all those other national economies who don't bother with a central bank...
When all you have to do is add zeros to a number, to cover debt, the dollar tanks even farther.
Why for all these years have "WE THE PEOPLE" not been able to audit the FED?
Why the push back now, to have a full audit of the FED.
Quote:
Washington, D.C. – Congressman Ron Paul (TX-14) is pleased to announce that his and Congressman Grayson’s amendment based on HR 1207 has passed in the Financial Services Committee by a vote of 43-26 and will be included in major banking reform legislation.
The Paul/Grayson amendment:
Removes the blanket restrictions on GAO audits of the Fed
Allows audit of every item on the Fed’s balance sheet, all credit facilities, all securities purchase programs, etc.
Retains limited audit exemption on unreleased transcripts and minutes
Sets 180-day time lag before details of Fed’s market actions may be released
States that nothing in the amendment shall be construed as interference in or dictation of monetary policy by Congress or the GAO
“While HR 3996, if passed, will grant sweeping new powers to the Federal Reserve, at least with this amendment attached, it won’t be acting in secret anymore. This is a major victory for Federal Reserve transparency and government accountability,” stated Congressman Paul.
Now to list those that voted on the passing.
You have to question the motives of those voting nay.
Look who they are and what stake they have in exposing themselves as corrupt.
Quote:
Democrats
MA-04 Rep. Barney Frank nay
PA-11 Rep. Paul E. Kanjorski nay
CA-35 Rep. Maxine Waters nay
NY-14 Rep. Carolyn B. Maloney nay
IL-04 Rep. Luis V. Gutierrez nay
NY-12 Rep. Nydia M. Velázquez nay
NC-12 Rep. Melvin L. Watt nay
NY-05 Rep. Gary L. Ackerman nay
CA-27 Rep. Brad Sherman aye
NY-06 Rep. Gregory W. Meeks nay
KS-03 Rep. Dennis Moore nay
MA-08 Rep. Michael E. Capuano nay
TX-15 Rep. Rubén Hinojosa aye
MO-01 Rep. William Lacy Clay aye
NY-04 Rep. Carolyn McCarthy nay
CA-43 Rep. Joe Baca N-V
MA-09 Rep. Stephen F. Lynch nay
CA-42 Rep. Gary G. Miller nay
GA-13 Rep. David Scott aye
TX-09 Rep. Al Green nay
MO-05 Rep. Emanuel Cleaver nay
IL-08 Rep. Melissa L. Bean nay
WI-04 Rep. Gwen Moore nay
NH-02 Rep. Paul W. Hodes aye
MN-05 Rep. Keith Ellison nay
FL-22 Rep. Ron Klein nay
OH-06 Rep. Charles Wilson nay
CO-07 Rep. Ed Perlmutter aye
IN-02 Rep. Joe Donnelly nay
IL-14 Rep. Bill Foster nay
IN-07 Rep. Andre Carson nay
CA-12 Rep. Jackie Speier aye
MS-01 Rep. Travis Childers aye
ID-01 Rep. Walt Minnick aye
NJ-03 Rep. John Adler aye
OH-15 Rep. Mary Jo Kilroy nay
OH-01 Rep. Steve Driehaus aye
FL-24 Rep. Suzanne Kosmas aye
FL-08 Rep. Alan Grayson aye
CT-04 Rep. Jim Himes nay
MI-09 Rep. Gary Peters aye
NY-25 Rep. Dan Maffei aye
Republicans
AL-06 Rep. Spencer Bachus aye
TX-19 Rep. Randy Neugebauer aye
DE-01 Rep. Michael N. Castle aye
NY-03 Rep. Peter King aye
CA-40 Rep. Edward R. Royce aye
OK-03 Rep. Frank D. Lucas aye
TX-14 Rep. Ron Paul (sponsor) aye
IL-16 Rep. Donald A. Manzullo aye
NC-03 Rep. Walter B. Jones aye
IL-13 Rep. Judy Biggert aye
NC-13 Rep. Brad Miller
WV-02 Rep. Shelley Moore Capito aye
TX-05 Rep. Jeb Hensarling aye
NJ-05 Rep. Scott Garrett aye
SC-03 Rep. J. Gresham Barrett aye
PA-06 Rep. Jim Gerlach aye
GA-06 Rep. Tom Price aye
NC-10 Rep. Patrick T. McHenry aye
CA-48 Rep. John Campbell aye
FL-12 Rep. Adam Putnam aye
MN-06 Rep. Michele Bachmann aye
TX-24 Rep. Kenny Marchant aye
MI-11 Rep. Thaddeus McCotter aye
CA-22 Rep. Kevin McCarthy aye
FL-15 Rep. Bill Posey aye
KS-02 Rep. Lynn Jenkins aye
NY-26 Rep. Christopher Lee aye
MN-03 Rep. Erik Paulsen aye
NJ-07 Rep. Leonard Lance aye
Last edited by BentBow; 12-05-2009 at 02:10 PM..
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