Does anybody really celebrate Martin Luther King Day? (border, vote, murder)
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All the lives of major historical figures have been delved into and ther faults are all out for everyone to see. MLK is no different. But just like the founding fathers and Columbus he did contribute a substantial amount to the American story.
I have known of MLK's womanizing for long time. Just like FDR's and JFK's and Jefferson's and other presidents. I have known of Columbus' genocide for just as long, though I did learn of MLK's womanizing before I knew of the extent of the genocide that Columbus brought to native people in the Caribbean.
Regardless, like I said, they are all a part of the American story and all have contrubuted something of great value to our nation.
Sometimes I do celebrate MLK Day by doing volunteer service, sometimes I just think of him on that day. I usually think of presidents or Presidents Day and Columbus on Columbus day as well. In fact I'm looking forward to learning more about him on my next trip to the Dominican Republic.
Great perspective, thanks!
Regarding the OP: I reflect, don't necessarily celebrate.
MLK was a Republican. He was wire-tapped by the Democrats.
So Republicans claim, however we do know for a fact that he voted for Kennedy in 1960. I might add that the 1960 election was the point at which the Republicans and Democrats changed sides. You got rid of your intellectuals like Jacob Javits, Nelson Rockefeller, Ed Brooke, John Lindsay, Everett Dirksen, and swapped them for your Haley Barbers, your Strom Thurmans, and your Jerry Falwells. Meanwhile we threw most of them to the curb or sent them to re-education camp where they recanted their evil racist ways.
LOL Call it it coincidence or "fate" it is interesting that in perusing threads after getting home from work (I have limited time to do so during the work-week, and even less to actually reply) this one is the first that caught my attention and there was a reply directed at a post I wrote just about a year ago!
I probably wouldn't have posted again otherwise, but since it is here, then I feel obliged to respond :
Quote:
Originally Posted by desertdetroiter
LOL...He doesn't have to be YOUR hero. He's an American Hero.
Uh, if I remember correctly, this thread asked about personal outlooks and opinions on the subject? I gave mine, ya know?
Now then, with that hopefully settled? To some Americans (black and white) he is not only a hero but bordering on a saint. At the other extreme are those truly disturbed people who believe James Earl Ray was the hero. In between are those who, to varying degrees, believe he is a hero worthy of a national holiday in his memory to those who do not believe so, for different and legitimate reasons in their own right.
In your opinion, he is an American hero. That is fine. Mine is as I stated earlier (last year in fact), while I easily can see how some might regard him as such, I do not, personally (operative term here)...as in the sense of a George Washington, Thomas Jefferson, Robert E. Lee, etc. Yes, he was a man who made an heroic commitment to a cause he believed in, certainly. And that cause had a noble underpinning. But he is not a personal hero of mine, and I do not celebrate his birthday. It is nothing more sinister nor complicated as that. We both have opinions. Nothing more, nothing less.
Quote:
No, that doesn't make you a racist. But truthfully, if a man shows, as you said in YOUR OWN WORDS, a "commitment to his principles and courage in the face of adversity," and he still doesn't rate hero status, then i don't know what in the hell that makes you.
LOL I like the way you use that phrase "IN YOUR OWN WORDS"...as if you are a prosecuting attorney and I am someone on a witness stand. Sorry, that won't stand up in court (pun intended! ).
I said (not that I really have to justify it to you or anyone else) he is not a hero of MINE. Not once did I say I didn't understand how he might not be a hero to others. Big difference.
So what "in the hell does that make (me)"? I am not sure of what you are saying/asking here, so please clarify.
Quote:
It's amazing how slick you think you are. LMAO...you're good. Not good enough, but still...i gotta hand it to you.
How slick I think I am? Gotta hand it to me? What the hell are you talking about? I stated up front, in plain English, how I felt about things. Sorry to burst any bubble you might have in this realm, but you are not the only "tough customer" here who is not afraid to step up to the plate and speak directly. I have read many of your posts before on other threads and you make a point of how you do not sugar-coat what you really think. Well, I am of the same ilk. While I always try and be courteous, civil, and respectful -- and tactful when deserving -- to those with whom I disagree, I don't hide behind anything (my profile is out there for the world to see). What you see is what you get.
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You praise, then denigrate the man as someone not worthy of hero status because of things that happened after he died.
Again, I said this was MY opinion. Just as yours is yours. Nothing difficult to understand about that.
What I said was -- and will repeat and stand by -- is that many of the things Dr. King advocated had later-day consequences (IMO) that did as much to harm race relations as help them. If not more. (see below). How did I denigrate him? But ok, oh well, if your definition of denigrating comes down to something so flimsy as what you offer as evidence for doing so, then I plead guilty, I suppose ( (damn, that court analogy again! I gotta stop doing that! ).
Quote:
But then you end it by saying that you have no clue whether or not he would've even approved of the supposed results of his work.
That's right, I don't. Do you? And this is one of the central points that you seemingly are not getting. Would Dr. King have sanctioned forced busing, hiring quota's, default assumptions of discrimination based on the fact this or that group is not equally represented in a workplace? All of these negative consequences (IMHO) were often later advanced by some liberals in a shameful exploitation of King's name. I tossed out a legitimate question. To wit, would he have been content with the laudable goal of seeing forced segregation and overt racism gradually fade thanks to some of the things he initiated (Sit-ins, boycotts, etc) or, had he lived, become an advocate of the former?
Quote:
At the end of the day though, you're pretty transparent. That old antebellum southern politeness doesn't fool me one bit. But at least i know where you stand.
See all above on transparency.
Anyway, *grinning a bit here* I figured this general mantra of yours would come about sooner or later. That is to say, a sort of self-assumed notion that you are capable of being the Grand Judge (see the admittedly overdone court analogy puns earlier for reference! ) of other peoples motivations. Forgive me while I LMAO.
Fool you? Who is trying to fool you? You seem to be over-estimating your own importance in the whole scheme of things. I don't mean to be disrespectful -- as I truly respect your intelligence and factual knowlege of certain things -- but this condecending summation really just goes to show that you also have a very inflated view of your own opinions and outlook.
I remember you saying in another post on another thread how you hide from no man. No you don't and that is admirable and I respect you for it. No question on that score. But the thing is? I dont either. And I don't need to use "ante-bellum southern politeness". Translate it as you wish, but what you ironically refer to as such is what I call Texas/Southern good manners and an attempt to engage in civil discourse and debate; it is not trying to dance around this issue or any other. I stand solidly behind what I said. I don't know how it can be made any plainer than that.
Bottom line is, it is up to you if we can talk/debate/discuss as rational and intelligent men, or make this one of those things that degenerate into each trying to get in the last word and/or negatively questioning the others motivations with the use of inuendo and sarcasm. I vote for the former. But? In the terminology of the polite antebellum Southerner? Your call, sir!
Besides blacks and liberal whites who think Christopher Columbus was a terrorist?
renault !!! ... Exactly !
It truly appears that the subject matter of your thread contains most accurate information based on the current times !
At the very least it is most descriptive of the general attitude of folks way, way up here amongst the ole townships of the Cape ...
Thanks very much to the good old Feds who have dreamed up yet another holiday ( day off with pay ) for a great number of folks in this nation who really don't give a rats azzzzzz about the reason for taking another day off ! har harrrrrr !!!
Thank goodness the times they are "ah changin" ... and renault's first sentence speaks volumes about the particular holiday referenced !
Besides blacks and liberal whites who think Christopher Columbus was a terrorist?
I don't "celebrate" any government holidays per se, but I think the man deserved a day. It's not his fault that modern day liberals have turned so much upside down.
About being an anti-semite - I thought MLK was a zionist. ? Am I wrong?
LOL Call it it coincidence or "fate" it is interesting that in perusing threads after getting home from work (I have limited time to do so during the work-week, and even less to actually reply) this one is the first that caught my attention and there was a reply directed at a post I wrote just about a year ago!
I probably wouldn't have posted again otherwise, but since it is here, then I feel obliged to respond :
Uh, if I remember correctly, this thread asked about personal outlooks and opinions on the subject? I gave mine, ya know?
Now then, with that hopefully settled? To some Americans (black and white) he is not only a hero but bordering on a saint. At the other extreme are those truly disturbed people who believe James Earl Ray was the hero. In between are those who, to varying degrees, believe he is a hero worthy of a national holiday in his memory to those who do not believe so, for different and legitimate reasons in their own right.
In your opinion, he is an American hero. That is fine. Mine is as I stated earlier (last year in fact), while I easily can see how some might regard him as such, I do not, personally (operative term here)...as in the sense of a George Washington, Thomas Jefferson, Robert E. Lee, etc. Yes, he was a man who made an heroic commitment to a cause he believed in, certainly. And that cause had a noble underpinning. But he is not a personal hero of mine, and I do not celebrate his birthday. It is nothing more sinister nor complicated as that. We both have opinions. Nothing more, nothing less.
LOL I like the way you use that phrase "IN YOUR OWN WORDS"...as if you are a prosecuting attorney and I am someone on a witness stand. Sorry, that won't stand up in court (pun intended! ).
I said (not that I really have to justify it to you or anyone else) he is not a hero of MINE. Not once did I say I didn't understand how he might not be a hero to others. Big difference.
So what "in the hell does that make (me)"? I am not sure of what you are saying/asking here, so please clarify.
How slick I think I am? What the hell are you talking about? I stated up front, in plain English, how I felt about things. Sorry to burst any bubble you might have in this realm, but you are not the only "tough customer" here who is not afraid to step up to the plate and speak directly. I have read many of your posts before on other threads and you make a point of how you do not sugar-coat what you really think. Well, I am of the same ilk. While I always try and be courteous, civil, and respectful -- and tactful when deserving -- to those with whom I disagree, I don't hide behind anything (my profile is out there for the world to see). What you see is what you get.
Again, I said this was MY opinion. Just as yours is yours. Nothing difficult to understand about that.
What I said was -- and will repeat and stand by -- is that many of the things Dr. King advocated had later-day consequences (IMO) that did as much to harm race relations as help them. If not more. (see below)
That's right, I don't. Do you? And this is one of the central points that you seemingly are not getting. Would Dr. King have sanctioned forced busing, hiring quota's, default assumptions of discrimination based on the fact this or that group is not equally represented in a workplace? All of these negative consequences (IMHO) were often later advanced by some liberals in a shameful exploitation of King's name. I tossed out a legitimate question. To wit, would he have been content with the laudable goal of seeing forced segregation and overt racism gradually fade thanks to some of the things he initiated (Sit-ins, boycotts, etc) or, had he lived, become an advocate of the former?
See all above on transparency.
Anyway, *grinning a bit here* I figured this general mantra of yours would come about sooner or later. That is to say, a sort of self-assumed notion that you are capable of being the Grand Judge (see the court analogy pun earlier for reference) of other peoples motivations. Forgive me while I LMAO.
Fool you? Who is trying to fool you? You seem to be over-estimating your own importance in the whole scheme of things. I don't mean to be disrespectful -- as I truly respect your intelligence and factual knowlege of certain things -- but this condecending summation really just goes to show that you also have a very inflated view of your own opinions and outlook.
I remember you saying in another post on another thread how you hide from no man. No you don't and that is admirable. But the thing is, I don't either. And I don't need to use "ante-bellum southern politeness". Translate it as you wish, but what you ironically refer to as such is what I call Texas/Southern good manners and an attempt to engage in civil discourse and debate; it is not trying to dance around this issue or any other. I stand solidly behind what I said. I don't know how it can be made any plainer than that.
Bottom line is, it is up to you if we can talk/debate/discuss as rational and intelligent men, or make this one of those things that degenerate into each trying to get in the last word and/or negatively questioning the others motivations with the use of inuendo and sarcasm. I vote for the former. But? In the terminology of the polite antebellum Southerner? Your call, sir!
TexasReb !!! ... On The Money !
Washington, Jefferson, Lee ^ Lets add General Thomas Jonathan ( Stonewall ) Jackson !!! To your list above and we would have yet
another actual hero most worhty of a national holiday !
Look Away Dixie Land !!! Thanks A Bunch Y'ALL / Old Sgt. Lamar
Nothing to do with what the achievements are, or what the holiday is. People have a choice like it or not to celebrate the holidays they choose to, that that the rest of us feel that they should, not up to us. Can't celebrate a holiday if your working, or if you choose not to, People's Choice, not the people who make their minds up for everything a person should or should not do. A awful lot of them on this here forum.
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) of other peoples motivations. Forgive me while I LMAO. 
"Jest Anutter Ole Day Off Y'ALL" !!!
