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You have way too much belief in the power that the congress or president actually has. We have a system of checks and balances (regardless of whether or not you believe in it this year or four years ago) that supercedes the radicalism that you think can happen every two years.
Good god, this forum needs to quit pretending our govt is a sporting event.
Have you ever read about the new deal? Have you read about how many unconstitutional bills were passed? Have you read about how FDR threatened to stack the Supreme court with four extra judges(yes he can do that), who would all be voted in by the democratic-ran congress. So that he could make his acts constitutional. Have you ever read about the "switch in time that saved nine"?
We can talk about the strategic use of patriotism by the Bush administration to push his agenda.
There are not the checks and balances you want to believe. Secondly, once you make people dependent on a system, its impossible to remove it.
The truth is, the Democrats want to pass a national healthcare plan, not because Americans actually want it, or think it is really better. But because once it is passed, it cannot be repealed. Because there will be too many Americans that will depend on it. Not because it is good for the economy, not because it creates better results, but because that will be all there is for them.
Look at Social security, that whole system is a terrible mess, and provides far worse results than you would have if you invested privately. But it cannot be gotten rid of, just like the myriad of other government social programs that people have come to rely on. You need to differentiate between a programs intentions and its results.
Go read a little about Thomas Sowell, he will explain to you a little about how government works, and why good intentions on the governments part, almost always ends up in bad results.
Last edited by Redshadowz; 01-21-2010 at 02:55 AM..
Nancy will be voted out of office and still think she had not done anything wrong. All the politicians that are trying to force this health care down all of our throats will be gone. I hope she sits back and looks at her own quote and realize she is absolutely right when she said the state already has it and realize it should be a state issue and not our federal government. The federal government needs to back off, and stay out of each of our individual rights and state rights.
Have you ever read about the new deal? Have you read about how many unconstitutional bills were passed? Have you read about how FDR threatened to stack the Supreme court with four extra judges(yes he can do that), who would all be voted in by the democratic-ran congress. So that he could make his acts constitutional. Have you ever read about the "switch in time that saved nine"?
We can talk about the strategic use of patriotism by the Bush administration to push his agenda.
There are not the checks and balances you want to believe. Secondly, once you make people dependent on a system, its impossible to remove it.
The truth is, the Democrats want to pass a national healthcare plan, not because Americans actually want it, or think it is really better. But because once it is passed, it cannot be repealed. Because there will be too many Americans that will depend on it. Not because it is good for the economy, not because it creates better results, but because that will be all there is for them.
Look at Social security, that whole system is a terrible mess, and provides far worse results than you would have if you invested privately. But it cannot be gotten rid of, just like the myriad of other government social programs that people have come to rely on. You need to differentiate between a programs intentions and its results.
Go read a little about Thomas Sowell, he will explain to you a little about how government works, and why good intentions on the governments part, almost always ends up in bad results.
Yes.
No.
The answer is 6 not 4.
The people aren't the problem. SS is actually very efficient. People who recieve it can depend on it being in their mailbox or accounts on the time it was promised.
Why don't you give me a detailed example of how privatized SS would have yielded better results then SS this year. Let me know how medical insurance rates that are rising at two, three, or four times the rates of adjusted incomes are sustainable. Sowell is a partisan jackass. Open your eyes and take a good look at what corporatism has given the middle class (or what there is left of it).
Honestly, you guys didn't get it. I am a little disappointed.
The reason I highlighted the words "Massachusetts has health care", is because it is absolutely silly to say that Massachusetts already has health care but the rest of the country wants it.
If the rest of the country wanted it, they would have it, just like Massachusetts already does.
It is silly that one ideology is allowed to attempt to control the entire country. As many polls have already indicated, the majority of Americans are conservative, not liberal.
Liberals I plead with you, because soon I think the democrats' hold on politics will come to an abrupt end. And this will create a new passing of tyranny by the Republicans. Stop the madness, support states rights. You will regret it if you don't.
What happens if in 2012 people are so annoyed by Obama that the Republicans then have a 60-seat majority and try again to pass some kind of marriage-act/amendment, or maybe ban unions, start a war with Iran. You are giving them that power by trying to seize it for yourself.
When you complain about one ideology controlling the country, you do realize that we non-conservatives had to endure almost 8 years of it, right? I mean, you all are really complaining a lot as if you're enduring some terrible struggle, not seeming to realize how horrific it was watching our nation crash and burn under inept leadership and one ideology from 2000 until 2008. Thankfully, 2006 was at least able to stop the bleeding, even though conservative filibusters prevented any progress. Gridlock, at that point, was better than nothing.
And we voted for Obama, in part, to overhaul health care. That was his mandate. We're tired of being the wealthiest country and having a health care system that serves only those who can afford to be served. It's primitiive.
and.... contrary to popular belief, the proposed HC is NOT government run. Far from it.
if democrats are so sure that the USA wants a goverment run health care program, then why dont they put it up to a national vote, and keep all organizations out of the polls like acorn, seiu and any other group on both sides of the aisle.
let the people decide if they want the feds to run their health care.
There has never been a proposal for government run health care.
The fact that you Republicans have been able to lie about this, and to convince people that it is the truth, explains a lot about why we have the problems we have.
Im an Independent, I vote for the person..not the party.
that said, I believe that the Dems cant blame the Repos for their short comming, what they need to realize is that the things the can change is within their own group/party.
so many mistakes were made by the demos on this issue and went on as if they were in no peril.
things I saw...Prez Obama was disengaged on this topic...If it matters that much to you, you fight from the get-go.
Bonases for AGI execs...I would rather they challange the law and leave it to the courts to decide,than just roll over and not fight for the American Tax payer...BIG big mistake.
and not managing the race in Mass. the most important vote before '10...I dont know if he didnt have handelers there, but newscasts say a very bad run campaingn be Coakley...
States rights lost in the Civil War. So many try to say this war was about slavery only, but they are wrong. The Civil War was about States rights and we lost the war.
I also thought it significant that MA has state healthcare and they chose to make sure America does not get it. Maybe that should tell us something. Do you see people flocking to MA so they can get in on the healthcare or are they leaving because of higher taxes to support that healthcare? I don't know the answer to this, I am asking this question.
How many years since this state had a Republican Senator? Yet another question!
The message is there and I don't care whether the Democrats get it or not. I have voted for a Democrat for the last time. What I have seen in the last year with that party makes me want to puke. Obama talked about bringing the parties together and then ignored all Republicans. Nobody who is representing their state should ever be treated with so little respect and they have to end up apologizing to him. He should apologize to the whole country for his arrogant attitude.
States rights lost in the Civil War. So many try to say this war was about slavery only, but they are wrong. The Civil War was about States rights and we lost the war.
I also thought it significant that MA has state healthcare and they chose to make sure America does not get it. Maybe that should tell us something. Do you see people flocking to MA so they can get in on the healthcare or are they leaving because of higher taxes to support that healthcare? I don't know the answer to this, I am asking this question.
How many years since this state had a Republican Senator? Yet another question!
The message is there and I don't care whether the Democrats get it or not. I have voted for a Democrat for the last time. What I have seen in the last year with that party makes me want to puke. Obama talked about bringing the parties together and then ignored all Republicans. Nobody who is representing their state should ever be treated with so little respect and they have to end up apologizing to him. He should apologize to the whole country for his arrogant attitude.
To be fair, Republicans decided from the very beginning that they would kill any health care bill (no matter what) because they knew that if they could sink Obama, they could regain power.
To expect Obama to work with that mindset would have been political suicide.
1972 was the last Republican senator in Massachusetts
Mass. is losing some population, but it has a lot more to do with the simple realities of a mature economy, the infrastructure required to maintain that economy, and the lure of cheap land in developing economies like the Southwest and the South.
Of course Mass. has some problems, but rest assured, the same issues are beginning to afflict those places as well.
She came out today and said she doesn't have the votes to do anything. She knows health care is toast.
If the Dems were serious about reform they really would have an open honest debate on C-SPAN and look at some of the Republican ideas. Tort reform, allowing insurance to be sold across borders, coops, taxing Cadillac coverage etc.
Read this and tell me what your initial reaction is.
"Last night, House Speaker Nancy Pelosi continued to express optimism that health care reform was on track. "We will get the job done," she said as she left her office just before midnight. "I am confident of that. I have always been confident of that."
She went on to say she didn't view the Massachusetts vote as particularly significant. "Massachusetts has health care and so the rest of the country would like to have that too," she told reporters. "So we don't [think] a state that already has health care should determine whether the rest of the country should."
Perhaps Pelosi should ask the people of Massachusetts how they feel about their 'health care'...
"Massachusetts has had its own version of health care reform in place for four years. Residents have a much greater sense of what is to come if the Democratic-controlled Congress enacts a similar plan for the nation. While the reaction among Massachusetts residents to health care reform is mixed, there are enough citizens unhappy with Massachusetts' version to influence a sizable proportion of independents to shy away from voting for a Democrat who supports nationwide reform.
...Also, there are several predictable problems with Massachusetts health care reform that are sure to be repeated on a national scale if the Democratic Congress and President Obama succeed in pushing through their version. The Massachusetts plan has become unaffordable for the state and is just about bankrupt. The state has had to trim hospital reimbursements to remain in business. It has also eliminated coverage for the 30,000 legal immigrants in the state (that's LEGAL, not illegal.)" Why Coakley Really Lost: Massachusetts' Health Care 'Reform' -- Politics Daily
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