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Old 01-26-2010, 11:47 AM
 
Location: Raleigh, NC
20,054 posts, read 18,293,964 times
Reputation: 3826

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Excellent ownage of that ridiculous psychotic cult called Keynesianism, evidenced by pulling Keynes from the top drawer in the hotel room. Definitely more religion than logic going on.
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Old 01-26-2010, 11:48 AM
 
Location: Portland, Oregon
7,085 posts, read 12,060,763 times
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Of course! The doom and gloom people always come out when there is a correction and rattle around for awhile, till people realize the insane rambling is not going to happen and they are ignored again. It has been happening for centuries in well documented cases, just read some of the Gutenburg texts about past economic problems (The New Machiavelli has a first hand account in the UK during Victorian times that pretty well matches this recession dead on)...we are still around to read it.

People still want stuff; though hopefully people have learned not to spend in multiple excesses of their income and complain when they actually have to pay it back.
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Old 01-26-2010, 11:51 AM
 
Location: SE Arizona - FINALLY! :D
20,460 posts, read 26,343,211 times
Reputation: 7627
Quote:
Originally Posted by sanrene View Post
The American consumer has been hanging back, waiting to see the new taxes that are coming down the pike from obama, just as business has not hired due to his radical agenda hanging over their heads.
Consumers HAVE been hanging back (though that is now easing) but NOT because of taxes. That's a completely silly and ignorant argument. Consumers have been hanging back because of fear of losing their JOBS - not because of taxes (get real!) - and as job cuts end they will begin spend again.

The fact is, vast majority of people have seen their taxes DROP - not by a lot admittedly, but it's definitely gone DOWN. Of the upper end consumers - those who have actually seen their taxes go UP - well, those people are the ones who've actually LED the increase in consumer spending (look at sales at Tiffany for example):

"Tiffany & Co., the world's second- largest luxury-jewelry retailer, raised its annual earnings forecast and said holiday sales rose after wealthy consumers started spending more.

Revenue from Nov. 1 to Dec. 31 rose 17% to YS$799.1 million, New York-based Tiffany said in a statement distributed on Business Wire today. Sales at U.S. stores open at least a year climbed 12%, with gains of 16% in November and 10% in December. A year earlier, revenue fell 21%, and sales at U.S. stores sank 35%."


And THOSE are the people who's taxes actually DID go up. Fortunately for them however, the stock market ALSO went up - vastly improving their wealth - which MORE than made up for any tax increase they've been hit with.

Ken
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Old 01-26-2010, 12:01 PM
 
Location: Raleigh, NC
20,054 posts, read 18,293,964 times
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With special guest appearance by Michael Munger, chair of political science @ Duke, at 1:11.
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Old 01-26-2010, 12:01 PM
 
Location: SE Arizona - FINALLY! :D
20,460 posts, read 26,343,211 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by InformedConsent View Post
The consumer in China, not in the U.S.

"Sales were partially boosted by Apple's introduction of the iPhone in China last quarter."
Apple doubles iPhone sales in record quarter - Jan. 25, 2010


How's that Keynesian-bust hangover, Ken?
LOL

From YOUR OWN post: "Sales were partially boosted by Apple's introduction of the iPhone in China last quarter"

Do you not understand the word "partially".
OF COURSE China contributed to Apple's sales. Why do you think US exports have risen? It's a GLOBAL recovery. DUH!

US Exports were up 3.4% in December from the previous year.

http://www.bls.gov/news.release/pdf/ximpim.pdf

Ken
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Old 01-26-2010, 12:08 PM
 
Location: the very edge of the continent
89,060 posts, read 44,877,895 times
Reputation: 13718
Quote:
Originally Posted by subsound View Post
Of course! The doom and gloom people always come out when there is a correction and rattle around for awhile, till people realize the insane rambling is not going to happen and they are ignored again. It has been happening for centuries in well documented cases, just read some of the Gutenburg texts about past economic problems (The New Machiavelli has a first hand account in the UK during Victorian times that pretty well matches this recession dead on)...we are still around to read it.
It doesn't have to be that way. Hayek (one of the economic theory characters in the video) was an Austrian.

Ignoring the Austrians Got Us in This Mess - Barrons.com

Ron Paul, The Austrians Were Right | Ron Paul Library

Look at what happens when they (the Austrians) are ignored.
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Old 01-26-2010, 12:13 PM
 
Location: the very edge of the continent
89,060 posts, read 44,877,895 times
Reputation: 13718
Quote:
Originally Posted by LordBalfor View Post
LOL

From YOUR OWN post: "Sales were partially boosted by Apple's introduction of the iPhone in China last quarter"

Do you not understand the word "partially".
OF COURSE China contributed to Apple's sales. Why do you think US exports have risen? It's a GLOBAL recovery. DUH!
Then why do you use an article that reports Apple's GLOBAL sales to claim that AMERICAN consumers are fine?
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Old 01-26-2010, 12:20 PM
 
Location: SE Arizona - FINALLY! :D
20,460 posts, read 26,343,211 times
Reputation: 7627
Quote:
Originally Posted by InformedConsent View Post
Then why do you use an article that reports Apple's GLOBAL sales to claim that AMERICAN consumers are fine?
The article used SEVERAL examples - Apple's increased sales were just ONE of them (it wasn't even the first example listed) - you are the one who focused in on Apple (not me). Look at how Christmas sales HERE in the US were UP - this IN SPITE of the fact that the unemployment rate is higher than it was in 2008's Christmas season. Look at the Consumer Confidence Index - on the move upward.

The fact is - consumers ARE returning (worldwide AND here in the US).

Ken
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Old 01-26-2010, 12:23 PM
 
Location: Raleigh, NC
20,054 posts, read 18,293,964 times
Reputation: 3826
Quote:
Originally Posted by InformedConsent View Post
It doesn't have to be that way. Hayek (one of the economic theory characters in the video) was an Austrian.

Ignoring the Austrians Got Us in This Mess - Barrons.com

Ron Paul, The Austrians Were Right | Ron Paul Library

Look at what happens when they (the Austrians) are ignored.
The Keynesians will always have a scapegoat. Like all unsuccessful people, they will lay blame on some other culprit (not enough subsidies, not enough stimulus, Bush's fault -- did that slip in there? )
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Old 01-26-2010, 12:31 PM
 
Location: Londonderry, NH
41,479 posts, read 59,811,485 times
Reputation: 24863
The Austrian economic theory is nothing but a justification of a speculative boon and bust economy where the speculators lose and the financiers win.
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