An Endangered Species: True Fiscal Conservatives

[gwynedd1]

Originally Posted by kovert

Bartie, an old school Reaganite cat, argues not for small gov. out of slavish ideology but, for efficiency, in that a gov. pays for the services it provides.

Bartie is in favor of a VAT for reducing the deficit and financing universal healthcare.

Even one of Junior's former advisors is in favor of a VAT.

"But let's suppose that you are a conservative and you want the fiscal commission to succeed. You will have to agree to higher taxes as part of the bargain."

And they are not the only fiscal conservatives in favor of a VAT.

"No one I talked to succeeded in defeating it, other than mentioning they don't like the idea of more revenue for the government."

Of course true fiscal conservatives and the lunatic fringe cult of Beck that has hijacked their great name and legacy are 2 completely different species.

"The more necessary public spending seems to be, the more strenuously Republicans oppose it. The party’s political tactics are as hare-brained as its economics."

VAT sucks. Its a tax policy bolted onto neoclassical idiot economics. Why tax goods and services at all? Is it going to tax it all the same way like the old salt tax?

Its cumbersome , Byzantine, inefficient and taxes the wrong things using a defunct economic model. What's to like? Nothing.


Why don't these so called fraudulent conservative for once do what Adam Smith said to do?

"No one I talked to succeeded in defeating it, other than mentioning they don't like the idea of more revenue for the government."

Adam Smith destroyed this idea long ago.

[gwynedd1]

Originally Posted by maxxoccupancy

Economists have studied the negative effects of various production and consumption taxes for years, and have found that one type of VAT--one based on invoices and credits--not only lets you raise a certain amount of revenue with the lowest possible rate, but they can be set up to be mostly self-enforcing. If we lifted the earnings cap on the payroll tax and enacted a VAT (roughly 8-10%), we wouldn't need the federal income tax. The wealthy would pay their fair share (25% is better than nothing), and we would pay a lot less in our mid- to low-income years. Very high income folks would no longer have such a strong incentive to keep so much of their investments tied up in tax shelters, and the nation would save hundreds of billions in accounting and tax compliance costs.

You don't have to tax production at all. No taxes on capital and no taxes on labor. A VAT is also expensive to collect but it shifts this burden to the private sector. Thus it is one of the most expensive taxes you can have.

[Taratova]

Originally Posted by kovert

Well, quite frankly, this smart one has no problem with a drama queen bumping his thread.

No drama here.. lets talk about the economy.


Fitts never mentioned the movement of 17 trillion dollars out of our economy since 1998 that was wired by the Mexican workers here to circulate in their economy. 17 trillion is no drop in the bucket and it is not circulating here.

Do we have dumb people running this country or what!

We have become a society of services. Manufacturing is practically dead here other than the big ticket items such as airplanes and even then we have competition.

The housing bubble is worse than most people imagine. I bought a foreclosure in 2009 as a second home and there are many still sitting.

Fact is the banks have so many homes on their books they will have to go to short sales to keep them off their books to comply with the fed rules of having capital on their books to take in more foreclosures.

The banks are in trouble. Giving 30 year mortgages out at under 4 percent is not making them money with such a loss of revenue with each foreclosure.

Fitts should have talked about the FDIC too. Government bailout of banks .. and we are broke now. Plus our tax base is dwindling and the food stamp line is getting larger.. supply and demand.. food prices sky rocket with all that free food given away by our government.

[gwynedd1]

Originally Posted by Taratova

No drama here.. lets talk about the economy.


Fitts never mentioned the movement of 17 trillion dollars out of our economy since 1998 that was wired by the Mexican workers here to circulate in their economy. 17 trillion is no drop in the bucket and it is not circulating here.

Do we have dumb people running this country or what!

We have become a society of services. Manufacturing is practically dead here other than the big ticket items such as airplanes and even then we have competition.

The housing bubble is worse than most people imagine. I bought a foreclosure in 2009 as a second home and there are many still sitting.

Fact is the banks have so many homes on their books they will have to go to short sales to keep them off their books to comply with the fed rules of having capital on their books to take in more foreclosures.

The banks are in trouble. Giving 30 year mortgages out at under 4 percent is not making them money with such a loss of revenue with each foreclosure.

Fitts should have talked about the FDIC too. Government bailout of banks .. and we are broke now. Plus our tax base is dwindling and the food stamp line is getting larger.. supply and demand.. food prices sky rocket with all that free food given away by our government.

Since the banks proved they do nothing but create ponzi schemes in housing the Treasury should take all mortgages , not just the bad ones. Then the mortgage industry should be publicly run. This would allow a market driven, land value tax that is transparent to home owners, allows people to own their homes, pay them off if they like etc while also creating all the tax revenue they need so that the IRS can be eliminated along with VAT. If they need any more money, then booze and cigars.

[Taratova]

Originally Posted by gwynedd1

Since the banks proved they do nothing but create ponzi schemes in housing the Treasury should take all mortgages , not just the bad ones. Then the mortgage industry should be publicly run. This would allow a market driven, land value tax that is transparent to home owners, allows people to own their homes, pay them off if they like etc while also creating all the tax revenue they need so that the IRS can be eliminated along with VAT. If they need any more money, then booze and cigars.

Cut out the banks and let people directly invest in lending. Depending who is running this new venture. Moral decay in business is killing all of us and they should be morally upright people to run such a new venture of which is hard to find these days. Greed is the new word for success . More greed more success but sticking it to everyone eventually makes everyone poor and the rich get richer . The slap on the wrist to very few who take money fraudulently is no deterrent today.

The housing bubble along with OPEC draining us and the corporations moving out of the US and people buying homes they couldn't afford in the first place all of that and more put us to the point of no return..are there any fiscal conservatives who bought homes they couldn't afford? I doubt it.