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Yes, I can see how you would be perplexed. I was thrilled to discover Libertarianism a fews ago and got involved as much as I could learning about its various aspects. I got involved in several online forums and was very active. About a year or so into it, I began seeing the neoconservative influence infiltrating the ranks and it built momentum very quickly. I stopped participating but occasionally look in on discussions.
I cannot possibly call myself a Libertarian any more than I can call myself a Republican or Democrat. The labels have so many different definitions these days that I doubt anyone can have any confidence in labeling anyone else. Labels applied personally may help one define a personal ideology, but openly admitting to a label gets one what?--responses such as yours.
The label I applied to myself was tongue-in-cheek thus the question "ever heard of that one."
You DO intend to be antagonistic, but you are approaching with stealth. Answer the original post with your whys and why-nots and don't bother yourself with my views; I've participated as the original poster invited.
The primary reason I am challenging you is to demonstrate to those who may not know what true Libertarians believe that your views are not typical of any libertarian I've come across. I'm not sure what forums you have been involved in but neoconservatism is abhorred in most, if not all, libertarian circles, especially on social issues. However, if you consider supporting the principle that everyone is able to keep what they rightfully earn as neoconservatism, then you might have a point.
Since you are afraid of labels, can you explain what principles you follow that can be considered libertarian?
I could ask you the same. Why do you support such a failing system ?
Capitalism it is currently is imploding, itself. Its killing off a whole class
of people who are forced to contribute to it.
You need to research the CPUSA before we could have
a reasonable debate. Using ridiculous McCarthy era / FOX type
fear-0-ganda that has no basis in reality whatsoever
for a conversation is a waste of time. There has never been a
true Marxist type worker environment so the stuff you mention
is thoery only.
I am paying 'socialist' taxes and getting none of the benefits
of socialism. I have never paid out more taxes than in the last
three years. And for what ?? Exxon?? war ?? I dont agree with some
of the stuff CPUSA stands for but I will be voting that way also as a
way to show my displeasure with 'The system'. In the past I voted
for ideoligies I didnt quite agree with based on the 'better of two
evils' thoery. Im not doing that this time. The dems and repubs only
have big business, just different ones, as thier agenda. I watched
America go from being a manufacturing superpower to a 2nd class
country due to the agendas proferred by these two parties the whole
time the working class insidiously squeezed out so campaign contibutors
can profit.
A revolt against status quo has to start somewhere.
The only current surviving Marxist states are Angola, Benin, Ethiopia, Kenya, Senegal and possibly Cuba. I doubt that any reasonable person would want to emulate these economic disaster areas. The Marxist ideology was attempted in Eastern Europe, the Soviet Union, and China. They soon realized that it was unfeasible as a economic structure and modified it to a more workable model. Since, they've had to restructure or collapse, and we know what happened to Eastern Europe and the USSR. China has now adopted a much more capitalistic economy, out of necessity.
Marx was a bit of a prognosticator in that he recognized that class envy would arise under a capitalistic economy until the underclasses would revolt. This is currently underway in the U.S. in the form of "soak the rich" policies, and under the guise of "compassion". We've seen these phrases echoed here, on this forum, many times. We must not submit to these cries, which are based upon jealousy and laziness, but continue to champion individual achievement and personal responsibility, the basis of capitalism and libertarianism.
Since you are afraid of labels, can you explain what principles you follow that can be considered libertarian?
No. I'm not interested in any discussion with you. I mentioned a couple of things in my post with which I agree in Libertarian philosophy and I also mentioned that I would not consider this an opportunity to explain my ideals in detail.
Review my post again and you'll see that I don't claim to be Libertarian, nor would I. Libertarians have some very good ideas--and some not-so-good ideas, which makes Libertarianism fall into the same category as any other political philosophy regarding its usefulness in broad-based application.
You may think it's your place to teach members and viewers of this thread the Libertarian philosophy, and to use my comments as a teaching tool, however, I can't help but imagine that you wouldn't be doing Libertarianism much good. If you're interested in being helpful, recommend some websites for people to peruse and learn for themselves.
And I'm not afraid of labels, they simply don't matter any longer.
No. I'm not interested in any discussion with you. I mentioned a couple of things in my post with which I agree in Libertarian philosophy and I also mentioned that I would not consider this an opportunity to explain my ideals in detail.
Review my post again and you'll see that I don't claim to be Libertarian, nor would I. Libertarians have some very good ideas--and some not-so-good ideas, which makes Libertarianism fall into the same category as any other political philosophy regarding its usefulness in broad-based application.
You may think it's your place to teach members and viewers of this thread the Libertarian philosophy, and to use my comments as a teaching tool, however, I can't help but imagine that you wouldn't be doing Libertarianism much good. If you're interested in being helpful, recommend some websites for people to peruse and learn for themselves.
And I'm not afraid of labels, they simply don't matter any longer.
You are the one who used the term "Libertarian Democrat", which is similar to using the term "Marxist Capitalist", they don't belong in the same phrase. Also, I don't really understand this statement of yours, "Libertarians can also demonstrate what a genuine free market is and help erase the negative ", or this one, "Libertarians can teach them many new ways. ". They seem too general and too vague.
By the way, can you not provide names of those democrats who support restoring state's rights?
‘I like many of the ideas from the Libertarian ideology as is, and others that I would modify somewhat . . .’
‘I cannot possibly call myself a Libertarian any more than I can call myself a Republican or Democrat.’
‘The label I applied to myself was tongue-in-cheek thus the question "ever heard of that one."’
I don’t believe the original poster expected detailed descriptions of personal political philosophy and for that reason my comments “seem too general and too vague” to you. Even if the original poster DID expect such verbosity, I wouldn’t have participated to any significant degree. This forum doesn’t lend itself to the type of civil discourse required for meaningful discussions of philosophy.
As I said, I’m not interested in any discussion with you, but I felt it necessary to point out a few things that you could have gathered from reviewing the 3 posts I’ve written, but from your replies it seems as though you weren’t interested in spending the time to do so.
‘I like many of the ideas from the Libertarian ideology as is, and others that I would modify somewhat . . .’
‘I cannot possibly call myself a Libertarian any more than I can call myself a Republican or Democrat.’
‘The label I applied to myself was tongue-in-cheek thus the question "ever heard of that one."’
I don’t believe the original poster expected detailed descriptions of personal political philosophy and for that reason my comments “seem too general and too vague” to you. Even if the original poster DID expect such verbosity, I wouldn’t have participated to any significant degree. This forum doesn’t lend itself to the type of civil discourse required for meaningful discussions of philosophy.
As I said, I’m not interested in any discussion with you, but I felt it necessary to point out a few things that you could have gathered from reviewing the 3 posts I’ve written, but from your replies it seems as though you weren’t interested in spending the time to do so.
You may have the last word, now.
As I stated previously, my objective was to demonstrate what a libertarian is NOT. You've helped me achieve that quite well, along with you disillusion of a democrat who supports returning rights back to the state.
I consider myself a Populist. I believe in a direct democracy with the need for active citizen involvement in the political process. I believe that everyone has individual liberty and that the Bill of Rights and the Constitution should guide our government at every turn. I vote moderate/conservative Democrat most of the time but am lucky enough to live in a state where we have Populist-influenced Democrats. I would not vote for an East Coast liberal.
We should each feel duty to take an active role in creating public policy. I believe that our government should be open to, and should encourage, involvement from all levels of society and that the middle class and lower classes need to make their voices heard. I am fearful that usually the rich make it to the highest levels of power and the voice of the common person is not heard. I don't make judgements on distribution of wealth, but I do believe that politics itself is too elitist and needs to be checked and balanced to allow anyone to run for office, regardless of lineage or capital.
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