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(I put this here, rather than in the Christian forums, because I'd like to hear what non-Christian's have to say on the matter.)
What is it with Christian's these days? What are they afraid of?
Last night, I tried to watch the latest Hal Lindsey program and could only stomach about half of it. Generally, I like ol' Hal and, though he mumbles a lot because of not using a script, his Bible prophesy program is usually pretty interesting. Last night, however, he deviated from his regular programming and spent all the time I watched him talking about the evil, socialist health care reform passed by the Congress and warning us about Obama. I don't know if he tried to tie that into prophesy or not, but I couldn't help but wonder, "What has this got to do with the Gospel and why are you doing it?" I have the same thought every time I see a preacher or Christian leader taking sides in the politics of the day. Why, a few weeks ago, even Jack Van Impe clearly implied that Obama might be the anti-Christ!
Christian programming and other media are full of such things. It's as if all of organized Christianity has suddenly gone stark raving mad, plunging off into the deep end of fear and partisan politics, to the detriment of spreading the Gospel. Suddenly, instead of going what the Lord told us to do (Go ye therefore into all the world...), we've become water-carriers for the Republican Party, spreading their message of hysterical fear of the new administration. The line between religion and politics has now become so blurred, so indistinct, that far too many Christian's can't tell the difference any more. When political opposition rises to the level of claiming it's God's Will, when Jesus Christ is co-opted into a certain political stance, the Good News of Salvation through the shed blood of Jesus Christ gets lost in the noise. Worse, it drives people AWAY from the Truth of Jesus because any time we Christian's take a political stance, we immediately alienate everyone on the other side of the issue and witnessing to them becomes a practical impossibility. Instead of being welcomed by them as keepers of the Faith, of loving followers of Christ concerned for their eternal souls, we're seen as hateful, political hacks who aren't worth listening to.
Is this what Christ told us to do? Where in Scripture does He say for us to involve Him in politics? By what authority do we dare drag His name into ANY political party? I can't find it, yet it's happening every day.
I understand the desire to stand up for what is right, but is this how we should be doing it? If it damages the Message, of what practical purpose is it in light of what Jesus told us to do? Which is more important to us? "Saving" America, or seeing the lost get saved? Right now, I fear the answer is the former and, sadly, I fear my position is the minority one within Christianity.
I wonder if this isn't the reason our churches are empty.
Sorry, I meant to put this in the religion forum, but mistakenly put it here. I would delete it and re-post it if I could, but the delete button has mysteriously disappeared.
But, maybe it will work there too. I'll let the Mods decide that.
Happy Easter stillkit Do you remember in 2008 when that pastor told his congregation that if they voted for Obama they could leave his church? I dont see a link to that story right now, but there was also this (and more):
Back when election season was at fever pitch many pastors gave Obama's position on abortion (keep it safe, legal and rare) as their excuse to. Maybe they had been suckered by secular right wing propaganda that twisted Obama's position on late-term abortion.
Many also might have been scared by Rev Wright. You'd think pastors would listen with interest to other pastors' sermons, especially those of one who not only headed the biggest church in its (mostly white) denomination but who holds a number of theology degrees. But maybe they were deafened by their own or their flocks' prejudices, which were strongly encouraged by every arrow in the quiver of hateful worldly propaganda of the time as you may remember.
Pastors who did listen and understand Rev Wright's messages might have been caught between a rock and a hard place -- hard to explain them sympathetically to a crowd of white Religious Right nonChristian churchgoers and expect to keep your job. That's an interesting situation, I'll bet some faced it.
Quote:
I wonder if this isn't the reason our churches are empty.
Hmm, maybe churches are as full as they are because so many of them encourage selfish, hate-based, unChristian values.
The squeaky wheel gets the grease. While fundamentalism is growing, there are still many, many mainstream congregations that are inclusive and loving. Unfortunately, the white noise from the more extreme churches tends to turn off those more moderate people who are seeking a relationship with a higher power that they know as God.
When a friend complained that he doesn't attend a church BC he was fed up with the hate that he has heard from the pews, I asked him if he would stop eating at restaurants BC most of them are chains that serve unhealthy fried or microwaved foods or would he, instead, seek out those that give him nourishing meals. You don't stop dining out BC you don't like the menu at a particular restaurant. You just find another that is more to your liking.
If Most Christians truly believed in the Almighty, they would trust him to fix things. The hysterical Fundie loons are alienating the moderate Christians.
(I put this here, rather than in the Christian forums, because I'd like to hear what non-Christian's have to say on the matter.)
What is it with Christian's these days? What are they afraid of?
Last night, I tried to watch the latest Hal Lindsey program and could only stomach about half of it. Generally, I like ol' Hal and, though he mumbles a lot because of not using a script, his Bible prophesy program is usually pretty interesting. Last night, however, he deviated from his regular programming and spent all the time I watched him talking about the evil, socialist health care reform passed by the Congress and warning us about Obama. I don't know if he tried to tie that into prophesy or not, but I couldn't help but wonder, "What has this got to do with the Gospel and why are you doing it?" I have the same thought every time I see a preacher or Christian leader taking sides in the politics of the day. Why, a few weeks ago, even Jack Van Impe clearly implied that Obama might be the anti-Christ!
Christian programming and other media are full of such things. It's as if all of organized Christianity has suddenly gone stark raving mad, plunging off into the deep end of fear and partisan politics, to the detriment of spreading the Gospel. Suddenly, instead of going what the Lord told us to do (Go ye therefore into all the world...), we've become water-carriers for the Republican Party, spreading their message of hysterical fear of the new administration. The line between religion and politics has now become so blurred, so indistinct, that far too many Christian's can't tell the difference any more. When political opposition rises to the level of claiming it's God's Will, when Jesus Christ is co-opted into a certain political stance, the Good News of Salvation through the shed blood of Jesus Christ gets lost in the noise. Worse, it drives people AWAY from the Truth of Jesus because any time we Christian's take a political stance, we immediately alienate everyone on the other side of the issue and witnessing to them becomes a practical impossibility. Instead of being welcomed by them as keepers of the Faith, of loving followers of Christ concerned for their eternal souls, we're seen as hateful, political hacks who aren't worth listening to.
Is this what Christ told us to do? Where in Scripture does He say for us to involve Him in politics? By what authority do we dare drag His name into ANY political party? I can't find it, yet it's happening every day.
I understand the desire to stand up for what is right, but is this how we should be doing it? If it damages the Message, of what practical purpose is it in light of what Jesus told us to do? Which is more important to us? "Saving" America, or seeing the lost get saved? Right now, I fear the answer is the former and, sadly, I fear my position is the minority one within Christianity.
I wonder if this isn't the reason our churches are empty.
Maybe you should convert to Islam..............Thats such a loving and peaceful religion........Just watch out if they ask you to wear a heavy vest or jacket
The war on conservative speech has moved from the White House to your neighborhood pews. Left-wing church leaders want the Federal Communications Commission to crack down on "hate speech" over cable TV and right-leaning talk-radio airwaves. President Obama's speech-stifling bureaucrats seem all too happy to oblige. Over the last week, an outfit called "So We Might See" has conducted a nationwide fast to protest "media violence" -- specifically, "anti-immigrant hate speech, which employs flawed arguments to appeal to fears rather than facts." Their ire is currently aimed at Fox News and conservative talk-show giants. But how long before they target ordinary citizens who call in to complain about the government's systemic refusal to enforce federal sanctions against illegal alien employers or the bloody consequences of lax deportation policies?
The "interfaith coalition for media justice" is led by the United Church of Christ. Yes, that's the same church of Obama's race-baiting, Jew-bashing ex-pastor Jeremiah Wright. Other members include the Presbyterian News Service, the Evangelical Lutheran Church and the National Council of Churches. These religious liberals have partnered with the National Hispanic Media Coalition, which filed a petition in January demanding that the FCC collect data, seek public comment and "explore options" for combating "hate speech" from staunch critics of illegal immigration.
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The head of a conservative activist group says President Obama's appointment of a leading homosexual activist to his faith-based council is an ominous sign that he may enforce a "pro-homosexuality orthodoxy" on religious groups receiving federal funds, which is itself a form of bigotry
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I cannot say I go to church but I am glad there are ministers out there who are warning their members about what we have in the white house. Who does hussein obama appoint but two gay activist pastors, Bishop Charles E. Blake and Harry Knox for his adviorsy panel. There is no political aganda there
The war on conservative speech has moved from the White House to your neighborhood pews. Left-wing church leaders want the Federal Communications Commission to crack down on "hate speech" over cable TV and right-leaning talk-radio airwaves. President Obama's speech-stifling bureaucrats seem all too happy to oblige. Over the last week, an outfit called "So We Might See" has conducted a nationwide fast to protest "media violence" -- specifically, "anti-immigrant hate speech, which employs flawed arguments to appeal to fears rather than facts." Their ire is currently aimed at Fox News and conservative talk-show giants. But how long before they target ordinary citizens who call in to complain about the government's systemic refusal to enforce federal sanctions against illegal alien employers or the bloody consequences of lax deportation policies?
The "interfaith coalition for media justice" is led by the United Church of Christ. Yes, that's the same church of Obama's race-baiting, Jew-bashing ex-pastor Jeremiah Wright. Other members include the Presbyterian News Service, the Evangelical Lutheran Church and the National Council of Churches. These religious liberals have partnered with the National Hispanic Media Coalition, which filed a petition in January demanding that the FCC collect data, seek public comment and "explore options" for combating "hate speech" from staunch critics of illegal immigration.
------------------------------------
The head of a conservative activist group says President Obama's appointment of a leading homosexual activist to his faith-based council is an ominous sign that he may enforce a "pro-homosexuality orthodoxy" on religious groups receiving federal funds, which is itself a form of bigotry
------------------------------------------
I cannot say I go to church but I am glad there are ministers out there who are warning their members about what we have in the white house. Who does hussein obama appoint but two gay activist pastors, Bishop Charles E. Blake and Harry Knox for his adviorsy panel. There is no political aganda there
"Left wing" churches that want to "crack down on 'hate speech'"....
protest "anti-immigrant hate speech, which employs flawed arguments to appeal to fears rather than facts"...
(honest of townhall to admit such hate speech comes straight from "Fox News and conservative talk-show giants" )
attacking churches that try to combat hate -- classic! Happy Easter!
Just like the Taliban is not representative of mainstream Muslims, Evangelicals are not representative of mainstream Christians. Just because Evangelicals call themselves Christians, it doesn't mean they are. They don't practice the teachings of Christ and instead preach their lifestyle or culture. I don't consider Evangelicals to be Christians. Evangelicals are in their own category just like Mormons. I define a Christian as a non-fundamentalist mainstream Christians regardless if they are Protestant or Catholic. True Christians don't preach hate the way Evangelicals do regarding homosexuals, Muslims and people of other faiths.
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Do you remember in 2008 when that pastor told his congregation that if they voted for Obama they could leave his church? I dont see a link to that story right now, but there was also this (and more):
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