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Old 04-10-2010, 09:45 PM
 
Location: New York City
2,745 posts, read 6,462,023 times
Reputation: 1890

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Quote:
Originally Posted by thecoalman View Post
Cap and Tax is about controlling CO2 which is not a pollutant..... NEXT!
Then why is it being controlled?

The underlying assumption of proponents of Cap and Trade is that CO2 is indeed a pollutant - otherwise this whole discussion is moot.
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Old 04-10-2010, 09:47 PM
 
41,813 posts, read 51,028,702 times
Reputation: 17864
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrMarbles View Post
Then why is it being controlled?
You tell me, life on this planet cannot exist without CO2.
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Old 04-10-2010, 09:50 PM
 
Location: mancos
7,787 posts, read 8,025,674 times
Reputation: 6661
my trees will die without CO2. look it up
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Old 04-10-2010, 09:52 PM
 
41,813 posts, read 51,028,702 times
Reputation: 17864
If you want to call CO2 a pollutant I can justify calling water a pollutant as the greatest greenhouse gas of them all is water vapor. It trumps CO2 by many magnitudes.
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Old 04-10-2010, 09:57 PM
 
Location: New York City
2,745 posts, read 6,462,023 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thecoalman View Post
You tell me, life on this planet cannot exist without CO2.
Look, if you don't believe that CO2 is a greenhouse gas and that abnormally high levels of it in the atmosphere result in global climate change then obviously you won't like Cap and Trade. Cap and Trade hinges on the fact that too much CO2 is harmful.

I don't particularly care to rehash the global warming argument here since its been done in about a thousand other threads. But trust me that nobody wants to impose a cost on businesses "just because".
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Old 04-10-2010, 10:08 PM
 
41,813 posts, read 51,028,702 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrMarbles View Post
Look, if you don't believe that CO2 is a greenhouse gas
Never said that did I?See my post before yours.
Quote:
and that abnormally high levels of it in the atmosphere
Here's the increase in CO2 over the last 50 years, note the scale is only 1%.



To put that into numbers it has risen about 100 PPM, PPM stands for parts per million for those unfamiliar with it. Or even a easier number to understand we added 1 cent to $10,000 cash.

Does this minuscule number make a difference? Possibly, what is clear is that CO2 is not the only factor in the temperature of our climate.
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Old 04-10-2010, 10:49 PM
 
Location: New York City
2,745 posts, read 6,462,023 times
Reputation: 1890
Quote:
Originally Posted by thecoalman View Post
Never said that did I?See my post before yours.
Here's the increase in CO2 over the last 50 years, note the scale is only 1%.



To put that into numbers it has risen about 100 PPM, PPM stands for parts per million for those unfamiliar with it. Or even a easier number to understand we added 1 cent to $10,000 cash.

Does this minuscule number make a difference? Possibly, what is clear is that CO2 is not the only factor in the temperature of our climate.
The graph is misleading since CO2 is a tiny percentage of the atmosphere. Even if it doubled, you would barely notice it on your graph - it would still be well below the 0.1 marker.

Another way to look at it is to say that in 1950, CO2 was about 300 PPM -today it is close to 400 PPM. (400-300)/300 * 100% = 33%. So the concentration of CO2 is 33% higher today than it was 60 years ago. And the rate of increase is itself rising. Given that we will be dependent on fossil fuels for the foreseeable future, level of CO2 in the atmosphere will continue to rise for many decades to come. And it won't be cycled out possibly for centuries so even if we completely stopped all emissions today - present CO2 levels will remain for a very long time.

Of course CO2 is not the only factor - there are many positive and negative feedback loops. But this is precisely why we should be cautious - maybe water vapor in the atmosphere will exacerbate the problem. Maybe released methane will speed up the warming. We don't know. And I'd rather we not find out.
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Old 04-11-2010, 12:21 AM
 
Location: OCEAN BREEZES AND VIEWS SAN CLEMENTE
19,893 posts, read 18,438,358 times
Reputation: 6465
Quote:
Originally Posted by parfleche View Post
it will only hurt American business. your Chineese crap made by slave labor will still be available at super low prices.
Yeah may be crap, but it ain't so cheap.
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Old 04-11-2010, 12:37 AM
 
Location: Tyler, TX
23,863 posts, read 24,096,161 times
Reputation: 15126
Quote:
Will cap and trade hurt business?
Quote:
If you got it, a truck brought it.
Those trucks are fueled with...

If the cost of delivering goods goes up, the cost of those goods will go up. People can talk about specific industries all they want, and some can even pretend that those companies will just absorb the new tax without raising prices, but the bottom line is that everything you buy will cost more. It doesn't matter what it is, or where it's made. The price WILL go up - on EVERYTHING.
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Old 04-11-2010, 12:46 AM
 
1,374 posts, read 1,304,300 times
Reputation: 259
It will no question kill businesses!
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