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It is one viewpoint. It is not necessarily "the truth". You certainly think highly of your own posts.
An individual could spend years studying militias yet you would like us to believe you have uncovered the "truth" in a couple of cut & paste paragraphs? Please.
One can no more group all militias in the US together than they can all churches in the US. Way too simplistic. Nice try......
I challenge you to provide links, stories or research data that will rebut what I posted in a valid manner. It will be interesting to see what you find that may indeed provide rebuttal of my point of view. But I doubt it. However, you're welcome to try........
Just remember that anarchy is just a heart beat way with an out of control militia or gang of armed angry people.
A dollar and a cup of coffee is worth more than the narrow minded post you left here. Give us some facts............
Of course the movement emerged after the government massacred people at Waco and Ruby Ridge, when the government was promising to steal liberty more (back in the 1990's was the strongest time for the gun control movement).
Of course if you research COINTELPRO, REX 84, Project Megiddo and some other items, you'd understand quite a bit of what theyw ere warning about was no consiracy theory nonsense at all.
Now regarding the Oklahoma issue: that's a bit different. The federal government has in fact given support by law to states forming state militias if they wish.
The change in 1903 away from the militia system in place since the 1790's was the result of imperialism and playing world's policeman, not the government being opposd to militias. Militias work fine for defense, but not for imperial agendas and being world's policeman. The law specifically allows for militias in the states. The federal CMP even promotes marksmanship amongst civilians with a very specific purpose in mind.
All of the federal programs you noted are intended to focus on keeping the peace by suppressing any attempt at insurrection and/or a collapse in to anarchy. State militias are good in that they are state gov't controlled to do state emergency bidding. They are necessary for national civil security like it or not.
The cockroaches that make up the independent militias operate outside of law at all times.
Truthfully, I'm rather confused as to what it is you are claiming to be 'right' about. Is this thread about defining what a militia is? THE militia, as in what it means here in the US? What it meant in the past as opposed to what it is now? I guess what I'm saying is...whats your point? Personally, I see a militia as armed citizens, banded together in a time of crisis to defend their homes and families, from any number of threats. You, it seems, want to paste the label 'militia' on strictly anti government groups, specifically those with right leaning views, and turn the word into a slur. Pretty limp actually. I could cite quite a few examples of left wing radical 'militias' that commit acts of violence on a regular basis. These groups tend to favor high explosives over firearms, as a general rule, but tend to like poisons as well. Arson is also a widely used tool, and I have , personally, seen these left wing 'militias' use firearms in one of their ...operations.() So, tell me , what IS the difference in what these groups do as opposed to the ones you wish to single out as the sole and biggest issue with "militia movements'? Have you ever , personally, been hurt, or had someone you know hurt, by one of the 'militias' you are deriding here? These 'cockroaches' who are now scurrying for cover in the face of your light of ethereal truth? It is not just people like Tim McVeigh, or groups of people pissed off about Waco and Ruby Ridge who are causing problems and forming armed and dangerous 'resistance movements' under fast and loose pretenses. At any rate, the REAL militia is still alive and well. It is not the National Guard, nor is it any of the factions you mention, nor any of the ones I am talking about above. Nevertheless, it does exist. Believe it , or not, it's made up of the good guys. And, you won't find any of it's members committing criminal acts or espousing hatred or 'racial pride'.
Truthfully, I'm rather confused as to what it is you are claiming to be 'right' about. Is this thread about defining what a militia is? NO! I clearly stated INDEPENDENT MILITIA'S
THE militia, as in what it means here in the US? What it meant in the past as opposed to what it is now? I guess what I'm saying is...whats your point?
AGAIN. INDEPENDENT MILITIAS. NOT STATE SPONSORED MILITIAS
Personally, I see a militia as armed citizens, banded together in a time of crisis to defend their homes and families, from any number of threats. You, it seems, want to paste the label 'militia' on strictly anti government groups, specifically those with right leaning views, and turn the word into a slur. IF THERE IS ANY SLUR IT IS THE ONE THESE INDEPENDENT MILITIAS PLACE ON THEMSELVES BY THEIR ACTIONS.
Pretty limp actually. I could cite quite a few examples of left wing radical 'militias' that commit acts of violence on a regular basis. These groups tend to favor high explosives over firearms, as a general rule, but tend to like poisons as well. Arson is also a widely used tool, and I have , personally, seen these left wing 'militias' use firearms in one of their ...operations.()YOUR LEFT WING MILITIAS IS MY INDEPENDENT MILITIAS.
So, tell me , what IS the difference in what these groups do as opposed to the ones you wish to single out as the sole and biggest issue with "militia movements'? Have you ever , personally, been hurt, or had someone you know hurt, by one of the 'militias' you are deriding here? These 'cockroaches' who are now scurrying for cover in the face of your light of ethereal truth? It is not just people like Tim McVeigh, or groups of people pissed off about Waco and Ruby Ridge who are causing problems and forming armed and dangerous 'resistance movements' under fast and loose pretenses. At any rate, the REAL militia is still alive and well. It is not the National Guard, nor is it any of the factions you mention, nor any of the ones I am talking about above. Nevertheless, it does exist. Believe it , or not, it's made up of the good guys. And, you won't find any of it's members committing criminal acts or espousing hatred or 'racial pride'. FROM THIS SERIES OF STATEMENTS ONE CAN CLEARLY SEE THAT YOU EITHER ARE A MEMBER OF, OR HAVE DEEP SYMPATHIES FOR, THESE INDEPENDENT COCKROACH MILITIAS.
What? You accused militiamen of (all) operating outside the law. Prove your accusations!
I know from firsthand experience you're wrong.
I could also point out this old FBI report which pointed out most of them are not criminals: FBI Publications - Law Enforcement Bulletin - July 1997 issue - Militias: Initiating Contact (http://www.fbi.gov/publications/leb/1997/july975.htm - broken link)
Or this:
Quote:
Unfortunately, many individuals unfamiliar with the distinction use the terms extremist group and militia interchangeably. For example, in the wake of the Oklahoma City tragedy, some members of the media portrayed militia group members as wild-eyed, violent, and uneducated. This caricature seriously misstates the reality that many militia group members represent intelligent, law-abiding citizens...
It would appear the wingnuts on this board know how to scurry for cover as well
just because congress and the scotus says that the militia is the national guard does not mean our founding fathers knew what the militia actually was. to our founding fathers, the national guard would have been the hessians.
the quotes below show what the militia actually was and is intended to be.
Quote:
Tenche Coxe: "Who are the militia? Are they not ourselves? Is it feared, then, that we shall turn our arms each man against his own bosom. Congress have no power to disarm the militia. Their swords, and every other terrible implement of the soldier, are the birthright of an American... The unlimited power of the sword is not in the hands of either the federal or state governments, but, where I trust in God it will ever remain, in the hands of the people." – Tenche Coxe, The Pennsylvania Gazette, Feb. 20, 1788.
Quote:
Rep. Elbridge Gerry of Massachusetts: "Whenever governments mean to invade the rights and liberties of the people, they always attempt to destroy the militia, in order to raise an army upon their ruins." (spoken during floor debate over the Second Amendment, I Annals of Congress at 750, August 17, 1789.)
Quote:
Thomas Jefferson: "And what country can preserve its liberties, if its rulers are not warned from time to time, that this people preserve the spirit of resistance? Let them take arms... The tree of Liberty must be refreshed from time to time, with the blood of patriots and tyrants.", letter to William S. Smith, 1787, in S. Padover (Ed.), Jefferson, On Democracy (1939), p. 20.
Quote:
George Mason: I ask you sir, who are the militia? They consist now of the whole people." (Elliott, Debates, 425-426
Let's pull the cover back on these independent militia movement's to see if they scurry for cover like the cockroaches they are.
The Militia movement is a paramilitary outgrowth of the independent survivalist, anti-tax and other causes in the patriot movement subculture in the United States.
"The militia movement is a right-wing movement that arose following controversial standoffs in the 1990s. It inherited paramilitary traditions of earlier groups, especially the conspiratorial, antigovernment Posse Comitatus. The militia movement claims that militia groups are sanctioned by law but uncontrolled by government; in fact, they are designed to oppose a tyrannical government. Adherents believe that behind the "tyranny" is a left-wing, globalist conspiracy known as the New World Order. The movement's ideology has led some adherents to commit criminal acts, including stockpiling illegal weapons and explosives and plotting to destroy buildings or assassinate public officials, as well as lesser confrontations."
"In 1903, the Militia Act of 1792 was superseded by the Dick Act, which established the National Guard system, and made a distinction between the "organized" and "unorganized" Militia, reflecting the attitude that the Powers that Be didn't want most of the people to get organized as independent militias, despite the support for universal military training from most U.S. Presidents up to the administration of Harry Truman."
"Frustrated by recent political setbacks, tea party leaders and some conservative members of the Oklahoma Legislature say they would like to create a new volunteer militia to help defend against what they believe are improper federal infringements on state sovereignty."
More absolute lies and half truths . We have been protesting peaceully, and the only militias other than a few who have not committed violence like the ones you have left out ' left wingers' and mostly minority type racist .
Why don't you tell it like it really is ? Are you a muslim who belongs to one of these militias like " islamburg " ? Or maybe your a member of NOI and the Farracon racist violence instigators ? How about the terrorist Ayers, you know Obamas buddy ? Or the Black Panthers ? ACORN who was just shut down to possibly open back up in another name ?
Your just trying to stop free speech and take away the protestion of Americans . Did you vote in the leaders who sent our people to war and now they are the only ones on terror ist ?
I am confused about what their end purpose is supposed to be?
1. Is it just to play soldier on the weekends?
2. Is it to prepare for an invasion from Mexico or Canada, or maybe Cuba finally making good on the Evil Red threat is poses?
If the answers are "no" to the first 2 options, the only viable alternative to me seems to be it is to go up someday against the police or the army.
I find that troubling. What is the signal, akin to Paul Revere riding with his lanterns, that my neighbor Joe the Plumber should rush out with his gun into the streets?
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