Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Location: Charlotte,NC, US, North America, Earth, Alpha Quadrant,Milky Way Galaxy
3,770 posts, read 7,554,513 times
Reputation: 2118
Advertisements
Moderator cut: Let's cool the jets a bit and not get into sniping contest. There's a lot of good point/counter point arguments here. I'd love to see this spirited discussion continue without degrading remarks- where indirect or direct.
I agree with (for the most part) Buckhead. IMO there exists no other place on earth where the lowly of us can rise to be anything they want to be. The United States is a great country. You (simply put, not simply executed) need the will to push through the obstacles, and recognize that it won't be easy- but it is doable. A well known recent example Charles Gardner. A black man growing up in the south in the 60s (and attach every cliche you can think of to him) did it through shear will- where just about most people would have given up and thrown in the towel. Every obstacle, every "legit" excuse was readily at his disposal. Today, he's a millionaire, a "rich guy" now- if you listen to him he talks about taking initiative, being proactive, learning, growing, and consider "what ifs" in life (his book is far better than the movie btw). His buddies are other investment made millionaires at Bank of America, Shwab, Goldman Sachs, etc. However he never forgot the church run soup kitchen that provided a warm meal and a place to stay for himself *and* his son. He goes back to the same San Francisco kitchen and helps out to stay grounded. An enlightened, progressive, or "first world" society should not ignore it's under class- who have no place to go, nothing to eat, and no future.
Okay having said that, I'd like to make a distinction between those who cannot work and those who won't work. I have next to no love for anyone who refuses to work- whatever the job may be. There's a saying "a cure for being broke is to get a job". But then there's that group that cannot, the elderly, the vets with no family, the ill, etc. You may be willing to say "tough luck"- however I won't. Someone, somewhere at some showed compassion to you. Helping you change a tire, giving your car a jump, etc. It's the act of compassion that makes us "civilized" and not mere animals that simply walk upright.
Now back on topic, I'm all in favor of a total overhaul of the healthcare system. Reduce frivolous lawsuits, exploitation by end users, and provide basic obtainable healthcare.
I agree with (for the most part) Buckhead. IMO there exists no other place on earth where the lowly of us can rise to be anything they want to be. The United States is a great country. You (simply put, not simply executed) need the will to push through the obstacles, and recognize that it won't be easy- but it is doable. A well known recent example Charles Gardner. A black man growing up in the south in the 60s (and attach every cliche you can think of to him) did it through shear will- where just about most people would have given up and thrown in the towel. Every obstacle, every "legit" excuse was readily at his disposal. Today, he's a millionaire, a "rich guy" now- if you listen to him he talks about taking initiative, being proactive, learning, growing, and consider "what ifs" in life (his book is far better than the movie btw). His buddies are other investment made millionaires at Bank of America, Shwab, Goldman Sachs, etc. However he never forgot the church run soup kitchen that provided a warm meal and a place to stay for himself *and* his son. He goes back to the same San Francisco kitchen and helps out to stay grounded. An enlightened, progressive, or "first world" society should not ignore it's under class- who have no place to go, nothing to eat, and no future.
Okay having said that, I'd like to make a distinction between those who cannot work and those who won't work. I have next to no love for anyone who refuses to work- whatever the job may be. There's a saying "a cure for being broke is to get a job". But then there's that group that cannot, the elderly, the vets with no family, the ill, etc. You may be willing to say "tough luck"- however I won't. Someone, somewhere at some showed compassion to you. Helping you change a tire, giving your car a jump, etc. It's the act of compassion that makes us "civilized" and not mere animals that simply walk upright.
Now back on topic, I'm all in favor of a total overhaul of the healthcare system. Reduce frivolous lawsuits, exploitation by end users, and provide basic obtainable healthcare.
Thank you Mike! Very well put. Another example is a guy here in Atlanta, Herman Russell. He wasn't from a priviledged background by any stretch, started out by hanging drywall and now owns the largest black-owned construction company in America. What I get tired of is the mentality that because people are poor that we should take money from the producers to support them. A lot of people have been on public assistance so long they know of no other way. I believe in giving people a hand - not a hand out! There are also a lot of what you might call the "working poor". Most of those people made bad decisions in their lives (didn't stay in school, didn't value higher education, did drugs or became alcoholics, wasted their money,the list goes on and on) Why then, should I have to help support those people?
Moderator cut: Let's cool the jets a bit and not get into sniping contest. There's a lot of good point/counter point arguments here. I'd love to see this spirited discussion continue without degrading remarks- where indirect or direct.
I agree with (for the most part) Buckhead. IMO there exists no other place on earth where the lowly of us can rise to be anything they want to be. The United States is a great country. You (simply put, not simply executed) need the will to push through the obstacles, and recognize that it won't be easy- but it is doable. A well known recent example Charles Gardner. A black man growing up in the south in the 60s (and attach every cliche you can think of to him) did it through shear will- where just about most people would have given up and thrown in the towel. Every obstacle, every "legit" excuse was readily at his disposal. Today, he's a millionaire, a "rich guy" now- if you listen to him he talks about taking initiative, being proactive, learning, growing, and consider "what ifs" in life (his book is far better than the movie btw). His buddies are other investment made millionaires at Bank of America, Shwab, Goldman Sachs, etc. However he never forgot the church run soup kitchen that provided a warm meal and a place to stay for himself *and* his son. He goes back to the same San Francisco kitchen and helps out to stay grounded. An enlightened, progressive, or "first world" society should not ignore it's under class- who have no place to go, nothing to eat, and no future.
Okay having said that, I'd like to make a distinction between those who cannot work and those who won't work. I have next to no love for anyone who refuses to work- whatever the job may be. There's a saying "a cure for being broke is to get a job". But then there's that group that cannot, the elderly, the vets with no family, the ill, etc. You may be willing to say "tough luck"- however I won't. Someone, somewhere at some showed compassion to you. Helping you change a tire, giving your car a jump, etc. It's the act of compassion that makes us "civilized" and not mere animals that simply walk upright.
Now back on topic, I'm all in favor of a total overhaul of the healthcare system. Reduce frivolous lawsuits, exploitation by end users, and provide basic obtainable healthcare.
That's pretty reasonable. Compassion is key. It's one thing if some dude abuses drugs and wastes his money on them, but it's ANOTHER thing if a motivated guy is struggling to find a job in his field (even after he got a masters degree).
I'd add "minimize price gouging by big drug companies, and apply more stringent standards for drug approval by the FDA" to your list of how we're gonna overhaul the system - and we'd be in agreement.
I'm all for socialist health care with safeguards against abuse (and this is coming from someone who is a political moderate), and if you don't like my opinion... tough!
Good luck on your "safegaurds". I saw on the cover of USA Today the other day that FEMA had overpaid Katriana victims $485 million!!!
Good luck on your "safegaurds". I saw on the cover of USA Today the other day that FEMA had overpaid Katriana victims $485 million!!!
All that money could've been saved if nearby cities had merely loaned their buses to New Orleans to evac the rest of these folks who didn't have a car to begin with and thus drive out of there on their own. But I'd agree that the FEMA overpaid these victims because of political and media pressure. FEMA is not a good organization.
Why can't you compare the US to other countries? Sure the population in Sweden is similar to individual states here, but I don't see how that would prevent things when it comes to healthcare. $$$$$$$$$$$
Also, why do you think the poverty rate is so much lower in Sweden to begin with?
Just a sidenote, Sweden is not a socialist country, but it's of course further from pure capitalism than the US
So you think it is because of our lack of universal (hand out) health care that we have WAY more poverty than Sweeden? Have they accepted millions of immigrants with open arms (your poor, your tired huddled masses)? Do you think our current system perpetuates poverty? Have you ever lived/worked anywhere where there is an abundance of poverty?
We should be the land of opportunity, not the land of handout.
All that money could've been saved if nearby cities had merely loaned their buses to New Orleans to evac the rest of these folks who didn't have a car to begin with and thus drive out of there on their own. But I'd agree that the FEMA overpaid these victims because of political and media pressure. FEMA is not a good organization.
These "victims" are not partaking in our system. They don't work! Hence they have no car and no health insurance. They live off the system in terrible neighborhoods laced with drugs, corruption and crime. If you think free health care is going to bring them out of that you are mistaken.
The FEMA overpayments had nothing to do with the busing. I think it had to do with the pre-loaded debit cars they were handing out like candy. Which I am sure at least half of which was spent frivolously.
what town do you live in? Maybe the employment opportunities, health care plans offered, and the cost of living in your town is better than where I am currently.
I live in the Minneapolis/St. Paul metro. We do have good employment opportunites, great health care, decent cost of living and a population of hard working fiscally conservative people. We are taxed pretty heavy (too much IMO), but "you get what you pay for" is a factor.
Which brings me to another point....Sometimes a move is necessary to get to where the opportunities are. If they weren't here I would jump in my truck and go wherever I needed to.
I live in the Minneapolis/St. Paul metro. We do have good employment opportunites, great health care, decent cost of living and a population of hard working fiscally conservative people. We are taxed pretty heavy (too much IMO), but "you get what you pay for" is a factor.
Which brings me to another point....Sometimes a move is necessary to get to where the opportunities are. If they weren't here I would jump in my truck and go wherever I needed to.
Heh, speak of the devil. Minneapolis-St Paul is one of the top 5 cities on my list that I want to move to...
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
