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1. When did Porsche make sway bars standard for the 911?
2. Is it true the 911 remained unusually tail-happy until the 90's, and if so, why did it take Porsche so long to address this? Source: History of the Porsche 911 | Autoweek
Porsche 911's are still tail happy. There are just enough nannies in them now to keep most people from discovering that fact, but they will still slaughter you with unintentional snap reactions to your throttle/brake inputs on the track/street if you aren't used to them I hear.
Never have owned a Porsche, but I really REALLY liked how my Z06 handled. 50/50 weight. The Porsche is very tail heavy, and I think it will be biting off more than most can chew if they turn off the nannies and discover they entered a corner too fast...
Porsche 911's are still tail happy. There are just enough nannies in them now to keep most people from discovering that fact, but they will still slaughter you with unintentional snap reactions to your throttle/brake inputs on the track/street if you aren't used to them I hear.
Never have owned a Porsche, but I really REALLY liked how my Z06 handled. 50/50 weight. The Porsche is very tail heavy, and I think it will be biting off more than most can chew if they turn off the nannies and discover they entered a corner too fast...
The flip side of this though, is with a rear weight bias, the front end feels remarkably light and nimble, far more than a Corvette does, or any front engine/RWD car can. So up until the limit, the steering feel is superior.
People rave about how nimble and flickable a Miata is for track racing... a 911 gives a very similar feel, but with more than double the horsepower.
As with anything, it just takes practice to learn the limits of the car and a safe speed to carry into a corner. The addition of lowering springs, wider tires, and beefier sway bars also went a long way towards reducing the potential for snap oversteer.
Unusually tail happy? Not any more so than any other mid-engine exotic from that era. The Countach, for example, had the exact same front/rear weight distribution as most Porsches during that time, 41/59.
The main thing with driving a Porsche (and most mid-engine cars for that matter), is that you cannot lift off the throttle in mid corner, unless you want to swap ends. You learn to go into a corner slow, then build speed through it. Go in too hot, and tap the brakes, and you'll be spinning in most modern mid engine cars with the nanny controls off.
Although the weight distribution of a 911 and Countach may have been the same, there is no doubt the 911 had more weight at the tail than the Countach. If that engine were a foot more forward the distribution would be the same but handling would be very different.
I agree that mid-engine cars are vulnerable to trailing throttle oversteer. But the 911 (especially older ones) is more vulnerable.
Although the weight distribution of a 911 and Countach may have been the same, there is no doubt the 911 had more weight at the tail than the Countach. If that engine were a foot more forward the distribution would be the same but handling would be very different.
I agree that mid-engine cars are vulnerable to trailing throttle oversteer. But the 911 (especially older ones) is more vulnerable.
Oh I agree... but it's a moot point really. Lift off the throttle in a 911 mid corner, and it would spin. Do the same in a Countach, or Ferrari Testarossa, and it would spin too. The only difference between them all is the speed at which each would induce spin.
Oh I agree... but it's a moot point really. Lift off the throttle in a 911 mid corner, and it would spin. Do the same in a Countach, or Ferrari Testarossa, and it would spin too. The only difference between them all is the speed at which each would induce spin.
Lifting off could catch the unaware, but that's part of it's charm in that it's a part of how you could corner VERY quickly in tight stuff: lift a little or trail brake to get the tail to start to rotate, then get back on the throttle to plant it and finish the corner. The problem is that most people are unable to look at the throttle as the way to save yourself in an imminent spin situation and want to lift more or get on the brakes even harder, which only makes it worse. The throttle is your friend in these cars.
Source, a decade of driving these three cars (as well as one s onwed by friends) on the street and track:
part of it's charm in that it's a part of how you could corner VERY quickly in tight stuff: lift a little or trail brake to get the tail to start to rotate, then get back on the throttle to plant it and finish the corner. The problem is that most people are unable to look at the throttle as the way to save yourself in an imminent spin situation and want to lift more or get on the brakes even harder, which only makes it worse. The throttle is your friend in these cars.
Exactly. A car that rotates quickly is a good thing in the hands of a skilled driver. In some ways it will handle quicker than it's weight would suggest.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MckinneyOwnr
The main thing with driving a Porsche (and most mid-engine cars for that matter), is that you cannot lift off the throttle in mid corner, unless you want to swap ends. You learn to go into a corner slow, then build speed through it. Go in too hot, and tap the brakes, and you'll be spinning in most modern mid engine cars with the nanny controls off.
Quote:
Originally Posted by hoffdano
I agree that mid-engine cars are vulnerable to trailing throttle oversteer. But the 911 (especially older ones) is more vulnerable.
Oh I agree... but it's a moot point really. Lift off the throttle in a 911 mid corner, and it would spin. Do the same in a Countach, or Ferrari Testarossa, and it would spin too. The only difference between them all is the speed at which each would induce spin.
Porsche 911's are still tail happy. There are just enough nannies in them now to keep most people from discovering that fact, but they will still slaughter you with unintentional snap reactions to your throttle/brake inputs on the track/street if you aren't used to them I hear.
Never have owned a Porsche, but I really REALLY liked how my Z06 handled. 50/50 weight. The Porsche is very tail heavy, and I think it will be biting off more than most can chew if they turn off the nannies and discover they entered a corner too fast...
What is with the "nannie" talk about Porsche drivers. I have been to hundreds of Open track events over the years and there are always more Porsche guys open tracking than Vette owners.
The Porsche club has been running track events probably longer than Corvettes have been in existance.
I don't even own a Porsche but I have been passed by the Porsches that just passed the Vettes running behind me.
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