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I'm African American, and lived in Portland for a few years. Portland does have many things going for it, but racial diversity, is NOT one of them. Myself, and most blacks that I knew in Portland, felt that it was racist. But not in a really overt way, unless you're dealing with Nazi Skinhead hate group types.
Portland is still very segregated by race. So that's one indication, that Portland has serious race issues. Police brutality towards blacks in Portland, is a serious issue also. Otherwise, the racism is mostly covert in Portland. Which is why I think that many whites there, don't think that racism exists in Portland.
I HAVE & DO live in more diverse cities - NYC, LA, San Diego & now San Francisco. I don't question your statement about the lack of diversity. What I don't understand is why you live in a city where you have so much disdain of your fellow Portlanders. .
It's funny you should say that, because I'm moving tomorrow
I truncated the rest of your post, but you again just randomly call "BS" on me stating what this city is about by and large (arrogant bicyclists, conformist non-conformism, etc.), but provide nothing to back it up. Meanwhile, there are no shortage of people who would agree with me on all fronts. You use as justification the fact that you were born, raised, and lived here your whole life. Which generally means you're probably the exact kind of person the rest of us are talking about here.
The other statement was pointing out that most of the Hispanics in this area are illegal, as opposed to states like Texas where while there are admittedly a lot of illegals, there is a huge percentage that are citizens. You apparently completely missed what I was saying.
Quite honestly its nice to have opinions from both sides, one being an outsider moved in, the other of course being one born & bred in the area. Odd how outsiders may view the behavior, yet insiders cannot discern. I can see how this could transpire, having lived in a place your entire life one may not be able to see how so called 'outsiders' would view the behavior.
Xanathos, thank you much for your response. This is very helpful coming from someone I would essentially be in the shoes of myself, the 'outsider'. You've been most helpful!
We do have a toss up however, between Seattle & Portland. I'm guessing a visit up to the area tho should clear this decision up.
Find one thing in there that was BS. Pick it out. Go ahead. Try it.
The freeze? Google "Seattle Freeze". I just did it and came up with hundreds of responses. Same deal with PDX, though not as publicized since PDX is generally an afterthought in terms of west-coast cities. Hell, there are discussion topics on it on this very site.
The Texas thing? I've seen it a hundred times, as has my girlfriend. It's very much real. It got to the point that right after she says it, she has to follow it up with "but I'm not one of those Texans".
The Hispanic thing? Find one inaccuracy there. Here, I'll tell you what...I'll meet you at the Beaverton/Hillsboro border and you can follow behind me as I take you on a driving tour.
The lack of diversity? Well documented.
I have to agree. Having come from Southern CA I had to laugh when I actually had a native of Portland tell me "we are more diverse up here"...LOL.
In regards to the "freeze" thing I would have to say that is true. Found it very difficult to make any friends. In fact the only friends made were other CA transplants.
I also got tired of eye rolls and flip comments when you mentioned you were from CA.
Also had two incidents prior to changing to Oregon plates with getting flipped off on the road( wasn't due to anything else) for having CA plates.
Let me share a story: a professional peer of my husband has a very Hispanic sir-name. He and his family lived in a west side suburb. Their daughter was packing for her freshman year at Stanford, Dad was negotiating her tuition assistance - and checking the box Hispanic. She said the teen equivalent of "wait a minute, I'm not Hispanic!" He asked her about her grandparents spoke only Spanish and were from Mexico - everyone in the family used the language at home, and that entitled her to check the box Hispanic.
This family did not suffer discrimination because of their Hispanic heritage, no one cared a fig about their ethnicity. That is not to say that this will be every-one's experience because in all communities there are jerks.
With respect to the 'freeze' keep in mind that many in the Portland area have Scandinavian, English, Japanese or Chinese heritage and those cultures value 'mind your own business' relationships until they really get to know you as an individual. In many ways that is why Oregonians don't butt-into the personal lives of others unless it impacts them. Asking someone if they are 'born again', for example, is borderline rude in this culture.
I would definitely visit the area as many times as you can, so that a proper decision can be made for you and your family.
Its a beautiful area but the region has to fit both your personality and your family's needs.
There is alot more to consider when moving anywhere than just the climate. Though very important and a major part of a person's criteria, it is not all to deal with. I think far to many people focus on that issue, and not enough on other issues that need to be dealth with.
Try to remember that visiting and living in a location, can and usually are very different experiences. I definitely recommend making several visits not just one. In visiting I would talk to as many people in as many situations as I could, to see if I felt a comfort level with my surroundings. Such as in neighborhoods I might think I would live in. Places I would shop. Schools where my kids would attend. Where I would work. Things that would involve everyday life here in the Portland area. Then I would combine all the places I visited and people I met, and then use my instincts to tell me what is best for my family. I do believe Instincts are one of our greatests gifts in life, and if used correctly can certainly help us make decisions. In fact our instincts can be in many cases the decision maker.
...Statements like this: In Portland, it's because if you aren't into drum circles, hot yoga, bicycles, carbon footprints, and being "weird" and "different" (so long as your definition of weird and different is *exactly* like the locals' definition of weird and different - non-conformism through conformism, I guess), then you aren't one of "them". - are bs...
Not! I generally agree with most all of your posts, but not on this issue. Take the ‘weird’ stance the vast majority of Portlanders have on umbrellas. It’s an issue of little importance, but it illustrates Xanathos point.
I refuse to conform to the ‘weird’ PDX method for a couple of reasons;
As I still consider myself a proud Californian, I couldn’t care less if locals think I’m a tourist.
Although I moved relatively recently to Portland, I didn’t leave my brains in California.
Btw, this morning using my umbrella, I barely made it home with goods carried in a paper bag, it wouldn’t have lasted 3 blocks using a hood.
I'm African American, and lived in Portland for a few years. Portland does have many things going for it, but racial diversity, is NOT one of them. Myself, and most blacks that I knew in Portland, felt that it was racist. But not in a really overt way, unless you're dealing with Nazi Skinhead hate group types.
Portland is still very segregated by race. So that's one indication, that Portland has serious race issues. Police brutality towards blacks in Portland, is a serious issue also. Otherwise, the racism is mostly covert in Portland. Which is why I think that many whites there, don't think that racism exists in Portland.
This statement, for the most part, is true. I grew up in Lake Oswego - where if you were an African American in our community you would play for the Trailblazers. There were 3 African American kids in our school the entire time I attended. There are many parts of SW Portland that are still not diverse at all although that is slowly changing. Blatant racism does not exist in Portland and most people are very welcoming of different cultures but there is a whole underground skinhead culture that people dont see much of. Portland neighborhoods are indeed segregated by race - white/middle/upper middle class in SW and downtown, Hispanic/Asian on the Westside, African American in N PDX.
My former boss is African American. She and her husband choose to live in NE Portland because she felt that it is important that her neighborhood remain economically diverse. They could live anywhere but felt that some youth needed role models they could see and reach out to.
I was going to avoid this thread because it is very difficult fir me to discuss racism with strangers. Usually, wires get crossed and it is easy to offend, esp. on a forum. Anyways, I thought I would give it a try.
- There is a generational gap when speaking of racism and discrimination. Racism/ prejudice is different from discrimination. I can have racist opinions of someone based on his race but if I don't take any actions against him, oppress him, hurt him, then I haven't discriminated against him. The older generations are thankfully the people who marched and fought for my generation to have the civil rights that we do. We have taken many of them for granted. I feel like the older generations do not take kindly to the word racist because they think of burning crosses and German Shepards attacking peaceful demonstrators and really hateful stuff that fell under the discrimination umbrella. The word, racist, is a very sensitive word for many generations and rightfully so. My generation ( gen x or people born in the mid 60's to early 70's) have a very different take on what constitutes racism. Many of us took Ethnic Studies classes that became available in the 80's, taught by Freedom Fighters, Black Panthers and 1970's Feminists who then became professors. My generation learned to call ourselves racists because we all are to a degree. We were taught that until we accepted our own prejudice, we were simply in denial and would make nanyang of the same mistakes that were made before us. I learned this 20 years ago in college and I carry this way of thinking with me everyday, as does my husband. We talk about institutionalized racism at the kitchen table. We discuss and grapple with our racist feelings that pop up when we hear of a disturbing racial incident on the news. I had a real knee jerk reaction to the Muslim Mosque that is being planned near Ground Zero. I think if I didn't admit my feelings then I would just deny them and then I would really become prejudiced. The more we deal with our honest feelings of prejudice, they go away. I think many of us from the 70's and 80's remember the socially racist comments during those times. We don't have the memories of separate drinking fountains but we remember the racism you would encounter when meeting your classmates' parents and the surprised looks on their faces. Back then, even in San Francisco, which was very segregated in many neighborhoods, BTW, many people weren't used to mixed race people and if I was given a nickel for every back handed, racist, well-meaning comment during my lifetime, I would be rich. "don't worry Dear, you pass for White". I heard that way into the '90's. This is the kind of racism that my generation is often speaking of.
The generation-y and the Millineum generations are even different from Gen y in that classism is becoming the issue that separates the haves from the have-nots. The Obama generation clearly didn't view racism in the way my generation does. Go to any upper middle class community in any major city and there is a good deal of diversity that didn't exist when I was in high school. If John Hughes was still alive and wanted to recast for Sixteen Candles, the lead role would probably go to a brown eyed, brown haired, mixed race/ethnicity young woman. There would be a fully diverse cast because that is reality.
I would tell the O.P. to consider an inner North East neighborhood because that is where my family have settled and we are very comfortable. We go all over PDX, though, and we haven't received much in the way of racist comments, looks, vibe. I can only speak of my own experience and do not want to discount the experiences of others here on the forum.
Thanks for reading this very long post.
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