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christiner81--We are similar as I am not much into the city culture. We have been to the coast dozens of times but rarely venture downtown.
The underemployment is the big issue. We continually are losing $20+ a year. It is hard to justify this kind of loss and may have to make a decision that will be sorrowful
$20?/yr? Is that a typo? Do you mean $2K/yr? $20K/yr? As was said, COL is not the reason. Portlands COL is not significantly above the national average. NYC's COL is almost 2.5x the national average. That is staggering to consider. If Oregon's income tax is outrageous then what should NY'ers think? Their income tax is .5?% higher AND NYC has Washington's sales tax on top of that. I raised a family of four on $34K/yr in NYC. Lose the cars or at least one of them. You'll save a minimum of 4K/yr, maybe more. Anywhere with a better COL than Portland isn't anywhere I want to live. There won't be any better employment prospects and other city intrinsics are not likely to be tetter either, IMO.
christiner81--We are similar as I am not much into the city culture. We have been to the coast dozens of times but rarely venture downtown.
The underemployment is the big issue. We continually are losing $20+ a year. It is hard to justify this kind of loss and may have to make a decision that will be sorrowful
I want to help you OP, not belittle you - but it is interesting that you use the word "Sorrowful." It seems that you like where you live, but want more $. I have a feeling that could be true of 99% of the population.
I do not think this is a "PDX or someplace else" question. I think this is a personal question for which your spouse and you need to determine priorities for happiness.
If you can secure more income in another town, are fine with moving and you think it will get you closer to long term happiness - go for it. Just make sure the goal (more $) has a high likliehood of success.
You can make any decision. I just encourage you to do some long term analysis as to what you guys need for happiness.
I want to help you OP, not belittle you - but it is interesting that you use the word "Sorrowful." It seems that you like where you live, but want more $. I have a feeling that could be true of 99% of the population.
I do not think this is a "PDX or someplace else" question. I think this is a personal question for which your spouse and you need to determine priorities for happiness.
If you can secure more income in another town, are fine with moving and you think it will get you closer to long term happiness - go for it. Just make sure the goal (more $) has a high likliehood of success.
You can make any decision. I just encourage you to do some long term analysis as to what you guys need for happiness.
This is so true, and always such a trade off that is different for every individual and family.
What if, say, you were able to enjoy the amenities you wanted in a home and a vehicle (or vehicles) and had enough money left over to contribute to retirement, put some money aside for kids' college educations, AND were able to take a couple of nice vacations per year. BUT--and here's the clincher--you would need to live someplace like Houston, TX to achieve all of that. Would it be worth it?
It's not for me to say for anyone else. For me and my family, I'd have to seriously think about it. My spouse and I work too much, but if one of us cuts back on work hours (and the income that accompanies) something would have to give for us to continue to live in Portland. But in Houston (or Vegas or Cincinnatti) we might be able to get by on one income and achieve what we want financially. Maybe it would be worth it to put in 10 or 15 years in a "less desireable" community to guarantee financial security.
And there lies the trade off. Is what's most important to you and your family driven by what's inside the four walls of your domicile, or is it what's in your community? For most of us it's a combination of the two, but which one is the driver?
Born and raised in Portland. I did leave Portland over what I saw as the costs outstripping my wages. I had a solid job with a global company earning over 50k a year. My costs were rising faster than my wage across the board. Rather that sit and wait to be flat broke or just treading water, I left. I sold my overvalued home and moved. Oddly my property tax is comparable where I live now. The comparison ends with dollars spent. The home I live in now in a mature suburban neighborhood is just over 3000 sq ft. My previous home in St Johns fronted by an unpaved street 1800 sq ft. I knew I made the right choice when I saw from the outside how much harder it is just to get by in PDX.
I do not have children but, consider Portland schools in the "affordable" areas. I am 4 blocks from a top rated Middle and High school. You don't get that in good ol' St Johns.
Order a pizza and call the Portland Police see who gets to you first. In contrast I have the local constable's cell number in my phone. Residents in my neighborhood are the customers of local law enforcement, not potential suspects treated poorly for bothering them.
To put the "less desireable community" thought to rest. From St Johns to where I live now is a huge step up. I am surrounded by professionals and some retired folks. No one is digging in my recycling bins at night. If its worth it to you to pay more to live in PDX great! Don't run others down for seeing the (rising) costs as a downer.
Perception is reality in the eye of the beholder. My opinions may not match yours. We can agree to disagree, keep the debate civil.
Last edited by Squidlo; 12-09-2013 at 07:09 PM..
Reason: sentence structure
I get what you're saying, but unlike many other U.S. cities, many of Portlands best amenities (parks, restaurants, bars, etc.) aren't downtown.
COL in Portland is misleading, because there are essentially two economies. If you bought a house pre-2002, or maybe even during the brief 2008-2011 slump, Portland is reasonably affordable.
If you're renting, trying to buy now, or stuck with an albatross you bought between 2003-2007, then the combination of high housing costs and relatively low salaries in most fields can be a serious squeeze.
I met many people like me who live in Portland metro area for the job opportunities not for downtown activities. It is the Northwest that is the draw.
I've only been in Portland for two years, but already I am contemplating how long I'll ultimately want to stay here. The number one reason is the cost of housing here. I'm 34 years old and single. I have an OK salary for Portland ($47,840 gross income), but because I'm single, buying a home in any sort of convenient, "close-in" area is pretty much out of my reach. Rents are high, too. I've chosen to continue living with housemates rather than getting my own apartment, because according to the recommended 1/3 of take-home pay going toward rent and utilities, I should not be spending more than about $812/mo. on rent and utilities. I want to save money, so I'm keeping my rent below that number, which means a choose to live in a nicer house with a couple of housemates rather than paying at the least $700/mo. for a crummy apartment. This is one of the painful realities I've had to adjust to for the privilege of living in inner Portland.
I've chosen to continue living with housemates rather than getting my own apartment, because according to the recommended 1/3 of take-home pay going toward rent and utilities, I should not be spending more than about $812/mo. on rent and utilities.
It's worrying to me that the metrics seem to have changed - the ratio of median household income to median house sales price is close to 1:6, vs. the historical gauge that you should buy at 1:3.
Some of that is low interest rates sustaining price inflation, but there's more to it than that. When we were looking at rental contracts this summer it's not uncommon for them to indicate now that the ratio of rent to gross income shouldn't exceed 1:2. So 1/3rd seems to be out the window, even before you consider utilities, taxes, etc.
The national focus on treating high home sales _prices_ as a sign of health seems woefully misguided to me.
To put the "less desireable community" thought to rest. From St Johns to where I live now is a huge step up. I am surrounded by professionals and some retired folks. No one is digging in my recycling bins at night. If its worth it to you to pay more to live in PDX great! Don't run others down for seeing the (rising) costs as a downer.
I'm glad you posted this, because this is exactly the point I was trying to make. Every person sees this from a different perspective.
I used the ineloquent phrase "less desireable" in relation to Houston, but did not intend to imply that Houston is universally considered less desireable than Portland. I picked Houston because it provides a good contrast to Portland in that it seems to be the polar opposite--in culture, weather, landuse practices, etc.
Before we moved to the Portland Metro from the mid Willamette Valley, we had the opportunity to take a transfer to Austin. We flew there to evaluate and were really blown away with how far $250k would get you for a home (this was back in '09). We liked a lot of what we saw in Austin, and running the numbers it was pretty clear that we would have done better financially than we have here in Portland, but we ended up here mainly because of the familiarity of Oregon and the fact that we feel we fit in more here than we would have in Texas. Oh, and the weather.
It's such a personal decision. I'm still not sure that we made the right decision for us, but you make the best decision with the information you have at the time. If the OP isn't particularly drawn to Portland, or staying here for some other reason that wasn't stated, it may be time for them to consider other communities.
I'm glad you posted this, because this is exactly the point I was trying to make. Every person sees this from a different perspective.
I used the ineloquent phrase "less desireable" in relation to Houston, but did not intend to imply that Houston is universally considered less desireable than Portland. I picked Houston because it provides a good contrast to Portland in that it seems to be the polar opposite--in culture, weather, landuse practices, etc.
Houston has an openly gay mayor. Houston is building new schools. While most of Texas has never heard of an urban growth boundary, it isn't all evil. There are quite a few "master planned communities" in the area. Kingwood which is part of the Houston metro has a Lake Oswego / Lake Grove feel. Downtown the Heights and Montrose are Hipster paradise. There are common elements.
Weather: I have 5 months of pretty hot sunny humid weather, the balance of the year is pleasant and mostly sunny. After living in Portland for over 40 years I can tell you which one I prefer. Houston averages 52 inches of rain per year Portland averages 39. It is green here most of the year. Houston it rains, then it stops and back to blue skies.
The best part for me, is living in a well built home. A "nice" community easily within my budget. I have 8 mature oaks and smaller fruit trees (fig & mulberry). I have roses, box woods and large palms on a landscaped 10000 sq ft lot (for under 200k). Do I miss Portland? Sometimes. I don't miss financial uncertainty working 6 days a week to keep my shack in Portland.
I've only been in Portland for two years, but already I am contemplating how long I'll ultimately want to stay here. The number one reason is the cost of housing here. I'm 34 years old and single. I have an OK salary for Portland ($47,840 gross income), but because I'm single, buying a home in any sort of convenient, "close-in" area is pretty much out of my reach. Rents are high, too. I've chosen to continue living with housemates rather than getting my own apartment, because according to the recommended 1/3 of take-home pay going toward rent and utilities, I should not be spending more than about $812/mo. on rent and utilities. I want to save money, so I'm keeping my rent below that number, which means a choose to live in a nicer house with a couple of housemates rather than paying at the least $700/mo. for a crummy apartment. This is one of the painful realities I've had to adjust to for the privilege of living in inner Portland.
Another option would be to buy the house, and have the roommates to help you pay your mortgage.
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