East Portland (Gresham, Beaverton, Hillsboro: transplants, real estate, apartment)

[ChristinePDX]

Originally Posted by urbanlife78

When are these things going to happen? It is hard to say, but Portland is expected to grow almost 200K between now and 2035 potentially hitting the population of 790K and people are going to need to live somewhere.

Good god, that's a lot of people! I see what you're saying. You might absolutely be right, if that is the case.

Thanks for the welcome!

[oldtintype]

Unfortunately I think that the majority of the area will become the crime hotspot of Portland. Section 8, people with felonies, poor people of color (and people who aren't of color), people with poor credit, etc are all finding themselves pushed into the area whether they like it or not as the inner neighborhoods get more expensive, more fancy, landlords can pick and choose, etc. The area has crappy public transportation, a crappy infrastructure and it's becoming a dumping ground for everything that isn't "cool and hip." It's also where most of the gang problems occur (Asian, Latino, Russian and African American) and then there are the white meth heads....

I think there ARE and will be many nice pockets but just by nature of the design of most of the area--designed for cars and not pedestrian friendly, is alienating and the way things have just been slapped together with random buildings and blocks and blocks of apartments create the kinds of problems I foresee.

The Oregonian recently did some great articles on the area and history.

Maybe I'm wrong and the really nice pockets that exist in that area will spread and the area will just get nicer. History suggests otherwise though (reading the Oregonian articles).

[ChristinePDX]

I've been following those Oregonian stories as well. Here is a nice archive of them, for other interested readers:

| Portland News - OregonLive.com

[Nell Plotts]

The reason why there is a lack of parks and sidewalks is that the area was annexed after development and the county did not require developers to provide those amenities. Closer in to Portland annexed areas that we now call neighborhoods were actually towns with parks and sidewalks.

I don't know what the practices are today but in the past when a street didn't meet standards or sidewalks were built each abutting property was assessed their share of the cost. If too many residents objected then the work wasn't done.

I agree, parks and sidewalks need to be provided. The only question is who pays for it. Most of the parks in Portland were either developer set-asides or donated land.

One area where you can see that practice in play is the street between FM and the Beaverton Costco. Notice where sidewalks stop. DH said that the next time the property owners file for a building permit they will be required to put in sidewalks.

[Deezus]

There's still sort of stigma with a lot of people about anything east of 82nd. To the point where even some homes just a a block or two east of 82nd in Montavilla will list or sell for significantly cheaper than a house two blocks west of 82nd. Despite the fact that it's the same neighborhood, housing stock looks about the same, and it's just a couple blocks more of a walk to the restaurants and bars on Stark. Looking for cheaper deals for a home purchase, I've been just looking right over 82nd. There's actually some fairly nice older homes around various neighborhoods in between 82nd and 205.

East of 205 gets painted with a broad brush, but there's a mix of neighborhoods out there from my experience. There's places that could be in the middle class areas of SW Portland on the edge of Beaverton and there's other areas that feel a little ghetto. Not every place is Rockwood--and Rockwood itself has good Mexican food for super cheap, love the La Tapatia Market out there and the little places to eat there. A lot of the area is just old suburban ranch homes, some of the neighborhoods look fine, though they lack sidewalks or much in the way of anything nearby. It's fairly average though, it looks like what it is, rural country that was pretty hastily developed at one point and annexed into the city at another point.

[urbanlife78]

Originally Posted by Deezus

There's still sort of stigma with a lot of people about anything east of 82nd. To the point where even some homes just a a block or two east of 82nd in Montavilla will list or sell for significantly cheaper than a house two blocks west of 82nd. Despite the fact that it's the same neighborhood, housing stock looks about the same, and it's just a couple blocks more of a walk to the restaurants and bars on Stark. Looking for cheaper deals for a home purchase, I've been just looking right over 82nd. There's actually some fairly nice older homes around various neighborhoods in between 82nd and 205.

East of 205 gets painted with a broad brush, but there's a mix of neighborhoods out there from my experience. There's places that could be in the middle class areas of SW Portland on the edge of Beaverton and there's other areas that feel a little ghetto. Not every place is Rockwood--and Rockwood itself has good Mexican food for super cheap, love the La Tapatia Market out there and the little places to eat there. A lot of the area is just old suburban ranch homes, some of the neighborhoods look fine, though they lack sidewalks or much in the way of anything nearby. It's fairly average though, it looks like what it is, rural country that was pretty hastily developed at one point and annexed into the city at another point.

I think that will be the hard part with East Portland, is there are a lot of upgrades that are needed to the area that isn't going to be fixed by any one developer and is going to take the city and PDC to get it done.

[ChristinePDX]

A lot of the problems in East Portland have been created SINCE the city annexed the land and approved massive growth in the area without providing more services and infrastructure to support it. If you haven't had a chance to check out this article yet, I think it's well worth the read:

East Portland's housing explosion tied to city plan without basic services | OregonLive.com

Speaking about one neighborhood, the Oregonian said that "In a city nationally renowned for smart urban planning, Powellhurst-Gilbert represents all that Portland leaders got wrong – and the legacy of problems that will haunt generations of residents for decades to come."

I agree.

Sometimes it drives me crazy to see all of Portland's press about livability, food culture, and innovative urban planning when such a huge swath of the city is completely under-served.

On a related note, two more pedestrians were killed trying to cross streets in East Portland this weekend:

Advocates Demand City Hall Response to East Portland Walking Deaths

Grim stuff.

[bler144]

Originally Posted by ChristinePDX

A lot of the problems in East Portland have been created SINCE the city annexed the land and approved massive growth in the area without providing more services and infrastructure to support it. If you haven't had a chance to check out this article yet, I think it's well worth the read:

East Portland's housing explosion tied to city plan without basic services | OregonLive.com

To a point I agree, but I think Mark White as quoted in the article has it right when he suggests it's not just city-provided infrastructure (like sidewalks), it's the relative lack of shopping and jobs.

It's not just on the city and there's only so much planning can achieve. Look at New Seasons - they don't have a single store in Pdx east of 42nd. But they do have 'east' stores in Vancouver and Happy Valley where the economy is stronger. The TJs store that was proposed and withdrawn was designated as "northeast" but it was on MLK, a long way away from the bulk of terrain in northeast (Hollywood would probably still have been closer for most).

And the article almost completely avoids the issue of traffic. In that vein, it's easy to call out the NIMBYs in inner-SW, as the article does, but that overlooks that inner SW is quite congested in terms of roads. What would the impact on traffic have been of adding 7500 more units in inner-SW?

[urbanlife78]

Originally Posted by ChristinePDX

A lot of the problems in East Portland have been created SINCE the city annexed the land and approved massive growth in the area without providing more services and infrastructure to support it. If you haven't had a chance to check out this article yet, I think it's well worth the read:

East Portland's housing explosion tied to city plan without basic services | OregonLive.com

Great read that does a pretty good job breaking down the complexities of East Portland. I think bler144 does a good job commenting on the article.

I think East Portland would be a good challenge for the PSU Urban Planning department to tackle in the sense that it would provide a fresh outlook on how to handle the complex issues. Hopefully Hales will be able to push for increasing the infrastructure and parks.

Originally Posted by bler144

To a point I agree, but I think Mark White as quoted in the article has it right when he suggests it's not just city-provided infrastructure (like sidewalks), it's the relative lack of shopping and jobs.

It's not just on the city and there's only so much planning can achieve. Look at New Seasons - they don't have a single store in Pdx east of 42nd. But they do have 'east' stores in Vancouver and Happy Valley where the economy is stronger. The TJs store that was proposed and withdrawn was designated as "northeast" but it was on MLK, a long way away from the bulk of terrain in northeast (Hollywood would probably still have been closer for most).

And the article almost completely avoids the issue of traffic. In that vein, it's easy to call out the NIMBYs in inner-SW, as the article does, but that overlooks that inner SW is quite congested in terms of roads. What would the impact on traffic have been of adding 7500 more units in inner-SW?

I have to agree with you, the article went after Southwest like it isn't doing its part to expand, but that area has the hills to deal with and isn't really the best area to be expanding until their are stronger transit alternatives. I think Portland should be looking into pushing light rail through Southwest Portland with plans to change the zoning around each stop to best handle any form of growth to that part of Portland, but I think everyone expects to see the bulk of the growth to happen throughout the other parts of Portland and for the most part overlooking already taxed Southwest.

I do think there needs to be a push for office centers in East Portland to help bring jobs to that area, my guess would be up along the Blue Line. I think what we are seeing happen in Hillsboro is what Portland should be pushing to make happen in East Portland.

[bler144]

At least a decent chunk of the development in Hillsboro though has been on converted farmland where you really only need to pick up a parcel or few to proceed.

Off-hand I can't think of too many places along the Blue line where you wouldn't have to contend with demolishing an existing property to put in a new complex.

Though on the bright side in theory your cost for connecting to sewer and other infrastructure might be cheaper.

Actual construction starts to get away from my expertise, but my theory is you're probably looking at east needing lots of mid-size new employers rather than a few big whompers like Intel - singles and doubles rather than home runs if you were to use a baseball metaphor.