Austin article about Portland Transit (Eugene, Gresham: neighborhood, live in, costs)

[urbanlife78]

I personally am a fan of Portland's growing rail system, plus Portland has a great bus system that are used by people who don't have to ride the bus.

My question is how many people actually make crosstown trips in general for work because this seems to get mentioned a lot on city data. Heck, even when living in nyc it wasn't common for people to make Brooklyn to Bronx trips and if one did, it would be very time consuming of a commute.

[colganc]

As many jobs as there are downtown, there are probably roughly the same amount down 26 heading west. Most people live outside of downtown. 26 going into and coming out of downtown has a ton of cars. Anecdotally at my work (near 26 on the west side) people seem to either live right nearby (<5 miles on the west side) or on the east side and Vancouver. I haven't heard of many people commuting from Milwaukie/Clackamas/etc.

I've heard many people say that if they could take a bus or MAX with a reasonable length of time and a reasonable number of transfers, they would. I don't know of any of them that enjoy the seemingly minimum 45 minute commute home and sometimes as much as 90 minute commute.

Currently if they took the bus or MAX it would involve at least three transfers some four and take even longer than driving. I'm confident for some it would be faster to bike the distance, however the reality is, that time and distance plus the west hills is more than people want to deal with on a bike. The problems are technically surmountable, but no one is interested due to the current political and governmental structure. Funny thing is, if the structure was different we would have more road capacity and wouldn't have these issues either or would still have them and a much larger stronger economy.

If it is still hard to understand try imaginary commutes for Intel and Nike employees that live on the east side or Vancouver. Even with their corporate shuttle buses to and from transit stops that is at least three stops for anyone outside the sunset corridor. Someone along 217 would also likely have three transfers.

The reason you didn't see it in NYC is exactly because it took so long. If it was easy, people would do it. It's beneficial to make it easy, more competition between areas to perform their best and gives more people more economic opportunities. If they lost their job it becomes easier to find a new one. Portland used to be easy to live on one side and commute to the other, but not anymore.

[urbanlife78]

Originally Posted by colganc

As many jobs as there are downtown, there are probably roughly the same amount down 26 heading west. Most people live outside of downtown. 26 going into and coming out of downtown has a ton of cars. Anecdotally at my work (near 26 on the west side) people seem to either live right nearby (<5 miles on the west side) or on the east side and Vancouver. I haven't heard of many people commuting from Milwaukie/Clackamas/etc.

I've heard many people say that if they could take a bus or MAX with a reasonable length of time and a reasonable number of transfers, they would. I don't know of any of them that enjoy the seemingly minimum 45 minute commute home and sometimes as much as 90 minute commute.

Currently if they took the bus or MAX it would involve at least three transfers some four and take even longer than driving. I'm confident for some it would be faster to bike the distance, however the reality is, that time and distance plus the west hills is more than people want to deal with on a bike. The problems are technically surmountable, but no one is interested due to the current political and governmental structure. Funny thing is, if the structure was different we would have more road capacity and wouldn't have these issues either or would still have them and a much larger stronger economy.

If it is still hard to understand try imaginary commutes for Intel and Nike employees that live on the east side or Vancouver. Even with their corporate shuttle buses to and from transit stops that is at least three stops for anyone outside the sunset corridor. Someone along 217 would also likely have three transfers.

The reason you didn't see it in NYC is exactly because it took so long. If it was easy, people would do it. It's beneficial to make it easy, more competition between areas to perform their best and gives more people more economic opportunities. If they lost their job it becomes easier to find a new one. Portland used to be easy to live on one side and commute to the other, but not anymore.

Why should it be easy to commute from Vancouver to Washington County? It is there decision to live cross town from their job. If they want to shorten their commute, then they should live closer.

I do however think that light rail does need to be expanded on the Westside and it would be beneficial to have the MAX reaching various points throughout the Westside.

[colganc]

Originally Posted by urbanlife78

Why should it be easy to commute from Vancouver to Washington County? It is there decision to live cross town from their job. If they want to shorten their commute, then they should live closer.

I do however think that light rail does need to be expanded on the Westside and it would be beneficial to have the MAX reaching various points throughout the Westside.

There are other reasons to live in an area besides a job. The east side should be a good example that you are used to. As previously explained MAX will not work. With a hub and spoke system there are too many transfers and too much delay in going through downtown.

You ask why don't they move closer since they are not entitled to a quick freeway or transit commute to Washington County. I take the reverse, Portland does not have an entitlement to force people in other cities to live a certain way. Portland is purposely creating bottlenecks in an interstate and intrastate highway system to force people to use mass transit. The City of Portland in many ways is forcing its style of planning on the surrounding cities.

[bler144]

Originally Posted by colganc

Portland is purposely creating bottlenecks in an interstate and intrastate highway system to force people to use mass transit. The City of Portland in many ways is forcing its style of planning on the surrounding cities.

I agree with most of your point - ideally you'd want at least some reasonable mechanism for people to move around the metro for work. It creates a means to better allocate labor/jobs in an age where it's rare for people to stay in a single job for 30 years, and there are costs to having people move every time they change jobs (not to mention 2 income households - if one works in Gresham and the other in Hillsboro that becomes a challenge).

But I disagree with this last point you made. I don't think Portland is 'forcing' its style of planning on the surrounding cities so much as it really doesn't have much choice. I've argued this point before, but even if Portland had the political will, purely as an engineering and economic problem, I don't see how the city (particularly on its own) can feasibly rationalize the overall highway/interchange system.

At best I see a few places the city could make a few marginal improvements, but even then at great cost, and at best probably just forestalls the pressure growth and increasing congestion are putting on the system - much of that growth coming in the surrounding counties.

[Nell Plotts]

Portland's largest bottlenecks are the result of geography - rivers and ridges. It always has been. To expand freeways through those bottlenecks is hugely expensive.

Portland residents did not create those to annoy the neighbors.

[urbanlife78]

Originally Posted by colganc

There are other reasons to live in an area besides a job. The east side should be a good example that you are used to. As previously explained MAX will not work. With a hub and spoke system there are too many transfers and too much delay in going through downtown.

You ask why don't they move closer since they are not entitled to a quick freeway or transit commute to Washington County. I take the reverse, Portland does not have an entitlement to force people in other cities to live a certain way. Portland is purposely creating bottlenecks in an interstate and intrastate highway system to force people to use mass transit. The City of Portland in many ways is forcing its style of planning on the surrounding cities.

Portland doesn't care where you choose to live, you are the one making that choice and dealing with the commute. Also there is this thing called "terrain" which is what causes this bottleneck. You can't expect the region to build several routes through a hillside just so someone can live cross town from their job. Don't like the commute, move closer to your job. Portland can't fix everyone's problems, sometimes you have to fix your own problems.

[sorupaa]

If portland wanted less cars on the road it would have the max go on 99e, 99w and Powell taking car lanes away. I wish that would happen.

[Rob Allen]

Originally Posted by spicymeatball

Really Portland's bus system is better than New York or Boston's? I guess I can understand NYC since they have the subway, but I'm surprised to hear Boston has such a poor system.

It's not that the system is poor in either city; my point was that in NY and Boston, buses in the city are considered the domain of the urban underclass. Middle-class white people happily ride the subway in both cities but wouldn't think of getting on a city bus. In Portland, everybody rides the bus.

[urbanlife78]

Originally Posted by drum bro

If portland wanted less cars on the road it would have the max go on 99e, 99w and Powell taking car lanes away. I wish that would happen.

Well the Orange line will do what you want, and the next line will probably be in SW Portland and will be roughly going down 99W.