Why Middle Class Americans Can't Afford to Live in Liberal Cities (Portland: for sale, how much)

[rzzzz]

Originally Posted by felinius

I just put $300k as an example because that's bottom barrel of what you'll find here in the Bay ... I see Portland has quite a number of $150-200k. That's still much less than 1/3 of income.



Just because you don't agree doesn't mean that it's "skewed." That's not how adults play.

It isn't my opinion. Portland has been making the top 10 "least affordable" lists for the past three or four years. Housing prices keep going up 7-11% each year for the past decade, while salaries have remained flat for almost two decades. It's like an isolated Pac NW version of what has been going on in the Bay Area. Urban growth boundaries, limits on building new homes, and a small class of people getting paid well while everyone else's salary stagnates are contributing to the lack of affordability. In both areas, housing cost inflation is being exacerbated by well heeled people from elsewhere. In the Bay Area, Chinese investors are paying cash for homes; in Portland, the Bay Area refugees are doing the same.

[urbanlife78]

Originally Posted by bler144

It may seem "more affordable" than SoCal or the bay, but a $300k home on $60k income doesn't meet historical definitions of "affordable." Even with the current low rates (assuming you have stellar credit as a young couple) and paying $60k as a downpayment, your monthly PITI is likely to be 35% of your take-home.

Can you pull it off? Sure, it's possible. But your margin for error would be pretty slim. If the furnace goes out, or the roof springs a leak, unless you have family support on top of your income, you're likely to be squeezed dealing with it.

Now, if you can make adjustments elsewhere in your spending (no car or one car, cook meals from scratch bulk ingredients, etc.) it's possible you can carry that load a bit better.

And as you say, owning makes it harder to move for employment, particularly if you buy high and the market drops.

Then one would just need to look to East Portland, St Johns, or down in Milwaukie to find homes that are $250K or less. One might not be living in Inner Eastside if they don't make the income to afford a $300K+ home, but there is still plenty of places for one to buy if their household income level is at $60K.

[PDXNative2Houston]

Originally Posted by urbanlife78

Then one would just need to look to East Portland, St Johns, or down in Milwaukie to find homes that are $250K or less. One might not be living in Inner Eastside if they don't make the income to afford a $300K+ home, but there is still plenty of places for one to buy if their household income level is at $60K.

One could live in Harlem, downtown Oakland, 5th Ward in Houston or Compton in LA to find affordable housing as well. The neighborhoods you mention "suck" to live in when compared to Lake O, the better parts of Beaverton, the Pearl, etc..., and are full of very old dilpadated houses from the baby boom era.

If you're at $60K and want nice schools, newer neighborhoods and the better areas of PDX...you're renting. Bottom line.

[urbanlife78]

Originally Posted by PDXNative2Houston

One could live in Harlem, downtown Oakland, 5th Ward in Houston or Compton in LA to find affordable housing as well. The neighborhoods you mention "suck" to live in when compared to Lake O, the better parts of Beaverton, the Pearl, etc..., and are full of very old dilpadated houses from the baby boom era.

If you're at $60K and want nice schools, newer neighborhoods and the better areas of PDX...you're renting. Bottom line.

Did you just compare St Johns, Eastern Portland, and Milwaukie to downtown Oakland, Harlem, and Compton (which Compton is not in LA, it is its own city)? How long ago did you move away from Portland? All of those areas are decent areas for one to buy, and not everyone wants to live in Lake O, Beaverton, or the Pearl.

Newer neighborhoods? Most neighborhoods in Portland are close to 100 years old now, I am beginning to wonder how well you know present day Portland. Because I can easily find homes under $250K and in good neighborhoods with good schools in a number of locations throughout Portland and the Portland metro.

[rzzzz]

Harlem is pretty nice and downtown Oakland isn't that bad. I'd rather live either of those places than St. Johns or east Portland. St Johns and east Portland would both be more like living in east ruthersford NJ, not Oakland or Harlem.

[SyraBrian]

I have a slight problem with affordability rankings. Some of them are wage-based only, and thus negate cities where a homeowner can find a tenant who's willing to live in his basement.

Even Joel Kotkin noticed that in some of the "affordable" sun belt cities like Houston, the residents' incomes were much more heavily wage-based than Portland's. Houston may have affordable housing but far fewer people are going to forego an equally affordable apartment or house just to live in a house at the end of a far flung cul-de-sac.

According to economist Joe Cortright, the compactness of Portland's metro also allows its residents to drive 20% less miles than in the average metro.

[oldtintype]

You have obviously never been to Rockridge, Piedmont, or the Oakland Hills if you're going to throw Oakland out there.

[urbanlife78]

Originally Posted by rzzzz

Harlem is pretty nice and downtown Oakland isn't that bad. I'd rather live either of those places than St. Johns or east Portland. St Johns and east Portland would both be more like living in east ruthersford NJ, not Oakland or Harlem.

I disagree, I have known a few people that have lived or still live in St Johns and they all seem to love it there. I have always thought the area to be nice. I have family that live in East Portland in a really nice neighborhood and there are a number of good neighborhoods in East Portland. Heck, I my best friend lives over in the Madison South neighborhood and loves it, which that is a great area for one who is looking for a house they can afford.

Not everyone wants to live in the Pearl District or Lake O.

[PDXNative2Houston]

Originally Posted by rzzzz

Harlem is pretty nice and downtown Oakland isn't that bad. I'd rather live either of those places than St. Johns or east Portland. St Johns and east Portland would both be more like living in east ruthersford NJ, not Oakland or Harlem.

Exactly. At the very least these areas would be accessible to high paying jobs in the bay area or Manhattan that would make it worth it.

To Urbanlife: Yes, not everyone wants to live in wealthy areas with great schools... Drug dealers, pimps, gangs and other do enjoy living in run-down areas it seems... But please exhibit to me the rankings of Lake O High versus Roosevelt? Or how about crime statistics for the two areas? You're definition of a "good" neighborhood and "good schools" is skewed by your obsession for being a cheerleader for PDX.

PDX has expensive housing and COL in comparison to how much people make. Some would say in this thread that moving in to a $250K house on $60K combined income is somehow reasonable or responsible...but it's not even close. That's over 4x gross income, that pretty much breaks every house buying rule in the book. You will be living like a family on welfare and food stamps at that level and none the less, at $250K you're looking at a very old house that WILL need a lot of work. It's not going to happen on $60K for too long.

[urbanlife78]

Originally Posted by SyraBrian

I have a slight problem with affordability rankings. Some of them are wage-based only, and thus negate cities where a homeowner can find a tenant who's willing to live in his basement.

Even Joel Kotkin noticed that in some of the "affordable" sun belt cities like Houston, the residents' incomes were much more heavily wage-based than Portland's. Houston may have affordable housing but far fewer people are going to forego an equally affordable apartment or house just to live in a house at the end of a far flung cul-de-sac.

According to economist Joe Cortright, the compactness of Portland's metro also allows its residents to drive 20% less miles than in the average metro.

The compactness of Portland also makes it much easier for people to take transit or bike to work as well, one of my favorite qualities of Portland.