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IMO. I have been traveling to Portland for 30+ years, so I believe I can comment on this. (Of course, I am contributing to the problem, but that is neither here nor there)...
Yesterday, I had the (dis) pleasure of driving WB from I-84 to I-205 to I-5 to Wilsonville. (3pm). The backups began on 84, 205 was a 5 mph trip for 18 miles, and then the merge to I-5 was another 5 mph trip to Wilsonville. According to radio traffic reports, every freeway was clogged in Portland. Yes, it was raining, but guess what it rains in Portland a lot.
With speed limit traffic this trip should take about 35 minutes from Troutdale to Wilsonville. I timed it at
just short of 2 hours.
My larger point here is Portland now equals Seattle with congestion. A city that supposedly is one of the leaders in mass transit certainly shows again and again that this has little impact on automobile traffic.
On one hand, congestion is a sign that a city is healthy, on the other hand it is also a sign that there is a long way to go when it comes to highway congestion. And don't even get me started on downtown Portland to Vancouver, WA. Just a ridiculous corridor that 95% of the time is clogged, yet no real effort to do anything about it.
OK, I'm through ranting now. Solutions? Or is it beyond hope?
Location: Was Midvalley Oregon; Now Eastside Seattle area
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I used to commute from Salem to Portland/Beaverton/Hillsboro because the cost of driving from Salem was less than buying in Portland Metro. Last commute was in 2000.
IMO. I have been traveling to Portland for 30+ years, so I believe I can comment on this. (Of course, I am contributing to the problem, but that is neither here nor there)...
Yesterday, I had the (dis) pleasure of driving WB from I-84 to I-205 to I-5 to Wilsonville. (3pm). The backups began on 84, 205 was a 5 mph trip for 18 miles, and then the merge to I-5 was another 5 mph trip to Wilsonville. According to radio traffic reports, every freeway was clogged in Portland. Yes, it was raining, but guess what it rains in Portland a lot.
With speed limit traffic this trip should take about 35 minutes from Troutdale to Wilsonville. I timed it at
just short of 2 hours.
My larger point here is Portland now equals Seattle with congestion. A city that supposedly is one of the leaders in mass transit certainly shows again and again that this has little impact on automobile traffic.
On one hand, congestion is a sign that a city is healthy, on the other hand it is also a sign that there is a long way to go when it comes to highway congestion. And don't even get me started on downtown Portland to Vancouver, WA. Just a ridiculous corridor that 95% of the time is clogged, yet no real effort to do anything about it.
OK, I'm through ranting now. Solutions? Or is it beyond hope?
I believe Tri- Met is going to add a line to Wilsonville or am I wrong? People need to start taking PT or not drive during rush hours. Around 9:30 AM, I can easily drive into Portland from
Beaverton though I avoid 26 generally. Also, during the week before 4:15 I can travel more easily but 5:00 to 6:45, I stay put.
The problem is not the highways, it's the drivers. Every time a driver comes to a stop they ruin the traffic capacity of the highway. There is some hope with the self-driving cars that will soon be coming on the market. They won't tailgate and will leave adequate space for cars to change lanes. Progress is moving fast enough that by the time they planned new highways, obtained Right of Way, let contracts and built the highways, the highways could be unnecessary.
Meanwhile, Portland is not a leader in mass transit, it is a leader in light rail, an entirely different thing. Tri-Met bus service sucks. Try taking public transit from Troutdale to Wilsonville sometime, and you will see why people drive. From Troutdale you can catch light rail in Gresham. Light rail from Gresham to the Rose Quarter transit station is pretty swift at about half an hour. From there it takes about an hour to get to the end of the line in Wilsonville, and you still aren't where you want to go. Driverless ubercars might make that more convenient, since they won't have to find parking and you can reserve one at your destination via wireless internet.
That has its own problems, if you can envision all those cars on the freeway dropping commuters at a transit station. People don't walk any more, so a monumental percentage of the population is mobility limited. Having a driverless car drop you a quarter of a mile away and hiking the last 440 yards is not an option for many people, so they would get to sit and wait for the 500 people in front of them to get out of the car and onto the train. Articulated or double decker busses might be the solution. Some of the bi-articulated busses can carry 200 people. That just leaves the joy of changing busses at the mouth of the Columbia Gorge in February. I speak from experience when I point out that a 20 degree wind at 20 mph can make you hypothermic in a hurry.
Mass transit is a convenience for people who don't drive. The hope for the freeways is dispensing with the drivers.
I believe Tri- Met is going to add a line to Wilsonville or am I wrong? People need to start taking PT or not drive during rush hours. Around 9:30 AM, I can easily drive into Portland from
Beaverton though I avoid 26 generally. Also, during the week before 4:15 I can travel more easily but 5:00 to 6:45, I stay put.
The WES commuter line runs light rail from Beaverton to Wilsonville, with stops in Tigard and Tualatin. It's still going to take over 2 hours to get from Troutdale to Wilsonville.
The WES commuter line runs light rail from Beaverton to Wilsonville, with stops in Tigard and Tualatin. It's still going to take over 2 hours to get from Troutdale to Wilsonville.
I thought the new Tri- Met will go to Wilsonville.
The problem is not the highways, it's the drivers. Every time a driver comes to a stop they ruin the traffic capacity of the highway. There is some hope with the self-driving cars that will soon be coming on the market. They won't tailgate and will leave adequate space for cars to change lanes. Progress is moving fast enough that by the time they planned new highways, obtained Right of Way, let contracts and built the highways, the highways could be unnecessary.
Meanwhile, Portland is not a leader in mass transit, it is a leader in light rail, an entirely different thing. Tri-Met bus service sucks. Try taking public transit from Troutdale to Wilsonville sometime, and you will see why people drive. From Troutdale you can catch light rail in Gresham. Light rail from Gresham to the Rose Quarter transit station is pretty swift at about half an hour. From there it takes about an hour to get to the end of the line in Wilsonville, and you still aren't where you want to go. Driverless ubercars might make that more convenient, since they won't have to find parking and you can reserve one at your destination via wireless internet.
That has its own problems, if you can envision all those cars on the freeway dropping commuters at a transit station. People don't walk any more, so a monumental percentage of the population is mobility limited. Having a driverless car drop you a quarter of a mile away and hiking the last 440 yards is not an option for many people, so they would get to sit and wait for the 500 people in front of them to get out of the car and onto the train. Articulated or double decker busses might be the solution. Some of the bi-articulated busses can carry 200 people. That just leaves the joy of changing busses at the mouth of the Columbia Gorge in February. I speak from experience when I point out that a 20 degree wind at 20 mph can make you hypothermic in a hurry.
Mass transit is a convenience for people who don't drive. The hope for the freeways is dispensing with the drivers.
Point taken on the difference between "mass transit" and "light rail". Seattle is also struggling with this and is certainly not the ultimate answer to congestion.
Self driving cars is an interesting subject, and while there is no doubt this is the future, there will definitely be a long transitional period where they will exist with traditional driver cars. This isn't going to happen overnight.
As for drivers being "the problem"...well yes and no. For drivers who are in the congestion they have no choice but to brake and stop when everyone ahead of them does so. In my case driving Portland freeways yesterday, there were no accidents reported. It was pure volume. I don't know how the driver is to blame for that, other than they are part of the "volume", which as I mentioned, so was I.
But driver error isn't really to blame here. This is where the capacity of highways come into play, and Portland has fallen short in this department, especially on I-5 between the Interstate Bridge and Hwy 217. 205 was built to handle 1990 capacities, but falls short today. 84 is hemmed in by existing businesses between 5 and 205, and there is little room for expansion. That said, expansion is not the ultimate answer, but there are certainly corridors that could use it in the short term.
Blaming it on the drivers is pretty ridiculous. Terrible infrastructure and a poorly run state/city government is really the problem. According to census estimates 240,000 people have moved here in the last 5 years and I can't think of a single infrastructure project here on the OR side other than the orange line.
Blaming it on the drivers is pretty ridiculous. Terrible infrastructure and a poorly run state/city government is really the problem. According to census estimates 240,000 people have moved here in the last 5 years and I can't think of a single infrastructure project here on the OR side other than the orange line.
Portland and Seattle are both anti-highway, (or should I say OR and WA are anti-highway). This is perhaps a forward-looking outlook, but you have to back it up with other transportation options. Light rail is a start, but not the ultimate answer.
We are in a great transitional period right now when it comes to transportation. The self-driving cars, Uber, Lyft, etc. are all part of this transition. I would predict that the whole transportation system will be revamped by 2030. Will there still be individual drivers in their own cars? Yes. Will more and more be using alternate transport? Yes. Should be interesting.
Point taken on the difference between "mass transit" and "light rail". Seattle is also struggling with this and is certainly not the ultimate answer to congestion.
Self driving cars is an interesting subject, and while there is no doubt this is the future, there will definitely be a long transitional period where they will exist with traditional driver cars. This isn't going to happen overnight.
As for drivers being "the problem"...well yes and no. For drivers who are in the congestion they have no choice but to brake and stop when everyone ahead of them does so. In my case driving Portland freeways yesterday, there were no accidents reported. It was pure volume. I don't know how the driver is to blame for that, other than they are part of the "volume", which as I mentioned, so was I.
But driver error isn't really to blame here. This is where the capacity of highways come into play, and Portland has fallen short in this department, especially on I-5 between the Interstate Bridge and Hwy 217. 205 was built to handle 1990 capacities, but falls short today. 84 is hemmed in by existing businesses between 5 and 205, and there is little room for expansion. That said, expansion is not the ultimate answer, but there are certainly corridors that could use it in the short term.
It's the first driver who comes to a stop that is the problem. It's the old lady who gets confused and just...stops. It's the moron who has to pass 3 cars and ends up in the wrong lane for his exit. The people behind don't cause the traffic jam, it's the idiot who starts it that is the root cause. Then a highway that could carry everyone comfortably at 55 mph becomes totally congested at 5 mph.
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