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When we look at today's economy, many people are left without hope. I know many people who have no hope, from Millenials who have missed the boat and will likely never have a second chance, to aging boomers who have little retirement savings and no hope for the future.
We have many groups in this country who have no hope for a prosperous, or even self-sustaining, future. These people, should they find work, will be paycheck to paycheck, living a lifetime one step away from poverty.
If one's life is to be defined by perpetual economic insecurity to the point of starvation and/or death (where I think many unprepared boomers are heading), when does it begin to be rational to commit suicide? Do you commit suicide at the first signs of hunger or when the first dumpster you attempt to dive in is locked? Do you beg at a charity for sustenance? Do you off yourself in a public display that is sure to attract news attention? If hungry enough, do you start killing nearby animals and reverting to primitive man? Is this the fate man faces post recession?
Suicide is appropriate to the person who feels it's appropriate. Otherwise, there will always be survivors who do everything and anything to survive. And there will be those who don't want to live anymore and off themselves anyway they can.
Suicide is appropriate to the person who feels it's appropriate. Otherwise, there will always be survivors who do everything and anything to survive. And there will be those who don't want to live anymore and off themselves anyway they can.
There have been many times to me when suicide felt right and was probably supported by the preponderance of the evidence. I worked in call centers only after college, all for under $42k/year, for years. I never held a professional position in my life and have drifted from call center to call center prior to my current job. I was on the fast track to nowhere. As someone who evaluates a lot of statistical data, I would have condemned someone with my own background to irrelevance and death.
Still, you can't quantify the desire to live and to want to be prosperous. I should have been a $10/hr guy for life, but I decided that wasn't going to be, that I was going to do better.
And I have. Slowly but surely, I am clawing myself back into relevance. And that's all I can ask for at this time.
There's no such thing as a rational suicide. There's also no such thing as an irrational suicide. To take an easy example, if you're terminally ill with no prospect of recovering, it's rational to conclude that it is irrelevant whether you decide to continue living or whether you opt for euthanasia (assuming availability). The decision to choose either one is purely subjective, and perhaps circumstantially driven (ie, you don't want your family to witness your slow demise, ergo euthanasia).
The same logic (logic of illogic) pretty much applies for every given moment in one's existence, just with many more variables to consider (for one's subjective-not-objective existential-perhaps-utilitarian calculus). If it's rational to conclude when you're on your deathbed that it's irrelevant whether or not you continue your existence at that time, then it's rational to reach that same conclusion now, given that you'll someday be on your deathbed. Whether or not to continue existing is not a question of logic. Is-ought fallacy is the most underrated philosophical precept of all time IMO. Emphasis on "O".
So it's rational to consider the entire issue to be irrational. So it goes for all of life.
Last edited by Matt Marcinkiewicz; 03-06-2014 at 01:31 AM..
At the point someone succeeds in killing themselves that is their definition of appropriate and rational.
It may not appear to be that way by everyone else but to them it is and by the time one is dead it is
too late to change your mind.
There have been many times to me when suicide felt right and was probably supported by the preponderance of the evidence. I worked in call centers only after college, all for under $42k/year, for years. I never held a professional position in my life and have drifted from call center to call center prior to my current job. I was on the fast track to nowhere. As someone who evaluates a lot of statistical data, I would have condemned someone with my own background to irrelevance and death.
Still, you can't quantify the desire to live and to want to be prosperous. I should have been a $10/hr guy for life, but I decided that wasn't going to be, that I was going to do better.
And I have. Slowly but surely, I am clawing myself back into relevance. And that's all I can ask for at this time.
On those occasions when suicide felt right, why didn't homicide/genocide of your (imagined, or not) oppressors ever cross your mind? Just wondering, out of a spirit of devil's advocacy. "Felt right" indicates subjectivity and not objectivity, although my prior post already made that argument.
Statistical data is meaningless if you're the outlier of a data point that can't be forecasted by the statistical model. Ever read The Black Swan or Anti-Fragile by Nassim Nicholas Taleb? If not, do so (IMO)....
Given subjectivity of the continuation of any life, there are lots of things that can be done in response to various scenarios in lieu of killing oneself. If you're talking about the economic climate of this country circa now, if that's your primary concern, then you may choose to address that particular concern differently. I've been a registered socialist for nearly a decade now in what is arguably the worst country in the world for such an affiliation. I can tell you something about left-wing politics if you're so inclined. This is a site that doesn't especially cater to that viewpoint and given that I think I read elsewhere on this site that you're an economics major from Appalachia I doubt you'd be easily amenable to such talk. Read Taleb...he's a (former) Wall Street multimillionaire/philosopher. That'd be our most likely point of confluence IMO, heh
Last edited by Matt Marcinkiewicz; 03-06-2014 at 01:53 AM..
I think suicide is only appropriate if there is a severe health issue at hand. I for instance probably wouldn't be able to bear life anymore if I was diagnosed with MS. Or if colon/rectal cancer resulting in my having to wear a stoma bag for life. In these types of situations I would much more prefer it if people around me just made my passing easier rather than force me to be bound to my suffering for longer than necessary.
Suicide is never justified for economic reasons if you ask me. Never.
Someday there will be 11 billion people who all understand they have the right to kill themselves...right before the imminent climatic disaster kills them anyway. In this vision there will be 11 billion atheists in the ecological equivalent of foxholes...oh, what I dreamer I am, right.
I'd say if you had a terminal illness which was going to bankrupt you, and your life insurance would provide for your family but nothing else would, it might be tempting to accidentaly drive off of a high bridge.
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