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The part about liking the idea of being a serial killer means he is either a troll or truly messed up.
"Messed up" is a relative term. And I would never actually do anything because it is NOT WORTH going to jail for. But I hear stories like this the way other people may read a steamy romance novel...well, other than the thirteen year old part, because I'm not a pedophile. Replace that with a nineteen year old and I do admit I get a "fussy feeling"
And your different from the rest of us how? As an Aspie I am emotionally sensitive. I worry about what others think about me (is that not being egotistical?) I get upset easily and am anxious most of the time. But I still do for others what I can because it boosts my ego! Well, I also try to do for others because I feel for them and want to prevent them from suffering. Another thing, you are far from alone in the world. Have you not heard that sociopaths end up as CEO's? They get there because they are not held back by feelings and can remain cool calm and in control under duress (and normally).
A TV presenter did a show on sociopathy and in the end he discovered he was one! His mother suggested he should look at himself so he did the test for the show. There are far more sociopaths out there than we realize. Hitler's and Stalin's are rarer but make a bigger impact on the world. But sociopaths they are. Charles Manson only killed or had killed a few celebrities for comparison. Hitler and Stalin murdered millions each.
Location: where you sip the tea of the breasts of the spinsters of Utica
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I dunno, the OP seems like an ordinary average guy to me. Why does everyone think young men love to learn martial arts, or at least maybe a third of them do? It's often to get a chance to legally beat up opponents. Why do they volunteer to serve as combat troops in the military when there is no threat to our country? It's to have a chance to kill people legally. We're a murderous and simultaneously altruistic species, going back to the very beginnings of our species.
Victorian punk, do you find that young women are attracted to you more than your looks would merit? It's a common stereotype.
So, after everyone and their grandmother has told me I should see a shrink for my issues, I finally started. After several secessions he sent me to see a specialist...and that specialist sent me to another specialist. We talk and talked and I answered a bunch of questions and finally he got this serious look on his face and asked me if I was ready for a diagnosis. As it turns out, the Nietzschean philosophy I've always believed in, sense before I could pronounce "Nietzsche", and the fact that I don't really love anyone and generally do what I can get away with and the fact that I now admit I can't really emphasize with anyone means that, while I'm not a full blown "prostitutes buried under the backyard" kind, I do indeed have sociopathic and psychopathic tendencies. My shrink told me that these things aren't really black or white but are more on a spectrum, and I'm on an end of the sociopath spectrum but not the far end.
My reaction? Fear, denial...and then, suddenly, relief.
All this time I knew there was something different about me. I moved 3,000 miles from my family and never really wanted anything to do with them and never missed anyone from home. People are just an audience for me, and I've never really attached to them. I am not very impulsive (hence I'm not a full blown psychopath) but that's because I'm always worried about getting caught. But at the same time I never really cared about the future and sometimes think there isn't one, which I now know is something sociopaths usually feel.
My doctor said that it may have something to do with my awful "childhood", but it is also probably genetic. So, if this is the way I was born...why should I be ashamed?
And no, I am not going to be a serial killer...granted, I like the idea of doing that sort of thing, but I also like the idea of flying an X-Wing against the Galactic Empire. That's just a fantasy, and I'm not so stupid to think I'll never get caught. I have found another way to get my thrills and satisfy my hedonistic urges. I box. It gets my aggression out and lets me hurt people in a structured manner without breaking the law. That and my shrink has informed that indeed, I have another, unorthodox way of getting my psychopathic fix: I like to volunteer at the homeless shelter.
Yes, I like to help people. Do I give a damn if they live or die? No. I just do it because I like the look in their eyes when help them out. It isn't altruistic at all and I'm done trying to full myself that it is. Just as another sociopath may enjoy the look of terror in a person they were about to kill, I enjoy the look of happy surprise in the faces of the people I help. When I volunteer I usually take chocolate truffles with me, which is much better than most homeless ever get. I like the feeling of control I have over them that they are happy because I said so. Last year I went to a school toy drive and personally handed two laptops that I bought to some of the underprivileged kids. I was their hero...and it fed my ego to make them believe that. I would NEVER in a million years have wasted that on an anonymous donation. And if that kid died the next day in an awful car crash...I would shrug and go right back to eating lunch.
And that is the scariest part about me for you non-sociopaths: I am not that different from the rest of you, and you may be a lot like me. Do you help people to help them, or to feed your own ego? Do you hang around with your family because you love them, or because of the pleasure they give you by loving you?
My shrink says that because I am not a full blown sociopath and I'm willing to talk openly about it, there may be hope for me. I can, if I work hard on it, feel love and remorse and all those other things. Question is...why? If this is who I am, why should I change it? It isn't really harming anyone and I don't see how it could. I really have nothing against hurting people, but it just isn't my shtick.
Once, decades ago, homosexuality was a mental disorder. Then the radical idea that people could relate to others sexually in a different way while not being crazy took hold and now, homosexuals are proud and open and we understand that there is more than one way to feel sexual attraction. What if empathy is the same? What if there is nothing wrong with not feeling empathy in the sense of unconditional love, but some people, like me, feel nothing but hedonistic satisfaction in helping others or keeping friends and family around?
What if, years from now, sociopaths were just like gays: regular people, out and proud? I mean, society needs us: without us, there would be no need for laws and police would have no jobs. That, and we have shaped history, from Genghis Khan to Dick Chaney and Thomas Edison.
I think that might be the next great social (or, anti-social ) movement: sociopath pride. Hell, nothing is going on in August, how about August becomes sociopath pride month?
I'll keep seeing this shrink and talking about my mother (what else?) but at the same time, if this really is me, is it worth changing, or would I be compromising myself the same way gays did when they submitted to electro-shock therapy? I'll keep in mind that being a non-sociopath may be preferable to being one, but I'm not sure that is the case. Maybe I should start a sociopath-pride movement? I mean, in the words of Lady Gaga, I was Born this Way.
I'm curious how old you are, because sociopathic tendencies typically decline as you age, around middle age or so. Not saying that this is a cookie-cutter disorder that you will follow the mold, but it is typical.
...the Nietzschean philosophy I've always believed in, ...
What the OP implies isn't really Nietzche's philosophy, but that's off-topic....
Quote:
Originally Posted by victorianpunk
I do indeed have sociopathic and psychopathic tendencies. My shrink told me that these things aren't really black or white but are more on a spectrum, and I'm on an end of the sociopath spectrum but not the far end.
...My shrink says that because I am not a full blown sociopath and I'm willing to talk openly about it, there may be hope for me.
...I'll keep seeing this shrink...
Hmm... perhaps there's a pattern here? The shrink makes a self-serving diagnosis: "Serious case, but not hopeless; can be improved with assiduous treatment; come see me every other week, and thanks, that will be $175 for today's session. Please see the cashier on your way out, young man... oh, and please behave nicely. I'm pulling for 'ya!"
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deezus
Dude, you're a nicer person than like 80% of the people I know if you do all that. Most people I know would never donate anything to anyone or volunteer for any reason... Who cares if you're only doing it for your ego?
Deontological vs. situational ethics.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldhag1
I think it needs to be pointed out that many of the traits that define a sociopath also define an effective CEO or elected government leader.
Indeed. Tinge of ruthlessness and unalloyed contempt is firmly lodged in all of our genes. We didn't come down from the trees, develop nimble hands and elegant brains, merely by sharing and cooperation. The very first tool picked up by primitive proto-Man was almost certainly a weapon.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldhag1
As long as you can follow the laws of society, as far as I am concerned, I am willing to accept you and your flaws.
Anyone who happens to fall short of outright divine omniscience has but one standard by which to judge, and that is a person's actual behavior. If your neighbor burns with desire to molest your child, but never so much as initiates the attempt to do so, he is no child molester. If your spouse dreams of smashing your head with a battle-axe, but never so much as squeezes your arm too firmly, he is no domestic abuser. If I walk through the store's aisles with fond desire to swipe items into my waiting satchel, but never so much as unwrap something before paying for it, I am no thief. We do evil in so far as we actually inflict evil. There is no evil in pure thought.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tamajane
Just because you choose not to hurt people now doesn't mean you won't feel differently at some time in the future.
Does this not apply to all of us? Who among is so holy and so naturally selfless as to never desire to cause another person harm, no matter the provocation? Who here genuinely feels such fondness for mankind, that he or she never feels the utmost battle between restraint and desire to unleash wrath?
Quote:
Originally Posted by tamajane
As far as getting something from family and friends, sure but it doesn't necessarily boost the ego of a normal person to do something nice for them.
A "normal" person would presumably have many reasons for being friendly and generous. But surely one such reason is the feeling of elation upon having done something good? Surely, we all crave the rush of feeling gratitude for our actions, of feeling that we belong, that our efforts are met warmly, that we endeared ourselves to others, by ministering to them? Is it a huge leap from this feeling, to one of superiority, that we are the better, for having done the more good?
Quote:
Originally Posted by NilaJones
Most live normal lives and are not serial killers, for exactly the reason the OP says -- they do the cost/benefit analysis, and the risk is not worth it.
Is this not the fundamental reason for why civil society exists? We contemplate our skills, our knowledge, our independence (or lack therefore), and finding numerous gaps, we accede to society's demands. We politely stop at traffic lights, submit to inspections by the TSA, show up on time at work, file our tax returns, pay our bills, and keep quiet in concert-halls because we wish to partake of the social contract. We wish to be able to exchange money for food, and to find means of earning that money. We refrain from killing because we don't wish to be killed ourselves. Ultimately, it's the golden rule - and NOT necessarily an empathetic or even kind regard for others.
The OP is not more aberrant or pathological than the so-called norm. Merely, he is more honest. Or perhaps honesty is the new pathology?
Deezus, we will have to agree to disagree. Being abused by a sociopath is nothing like being hurt by a neurotic or neglectful person. As far as your second point, what I am saying is that a sociopath is INCAPABLE of having friends. They go together like oil and water. By definition, they are incapable of intimate relationships. And as far as people helping others to feed their own ego--or hurting others, if you have ever known a sociopath really well, you would be able to tell the difference. And person one is NOT the better person for society. These people are toxic. They manipulate others to their own ends. This is much worse than a person "turning their back" on another person. There is a BIG difference.
So, because you are so "sociophobic", let me ask you this: what exactly should happen to me? You do agree that I had no choice in the matter, and that this is simply the way I was born, right? So what then should happen to me? Should I be stamped with a Scarlet Letter "S" so that everyone knows to stay away from me? Should I be locked away for life? And if you want to do such bad things to me even though I don' really hurt anyone in my day to day life and in fact I like to help people, that begs the question: who is the real monster here, you or me?
I'm curious how old you are, because sociopathic tendencies typically decline as you age, around middle age or so. Not saying that this is a cookie-cutter disorder that you will follow the mold, but it is typical.
I'm 30, and I don't think I've changed much other than to be more outgoing...that thing you've heard about sociopaths being the most charming people on Earth? Not 100% true.
I think it is just that as people get older they realize the consequences of their actions more and don't act out as often, but they are still without empathy, guilt or love. I've always been afraid of the consequences, and never wanted to hurt anyone so bad that I wasn't afraid of them, so I guess I haven't really changed much over the years.
There is no "cure", but there are ways of helping. Even if I never become "normal", which I'm not sure if I want or not, being a sociopath does open up a whole host of issues, like depression and such. Now that I know why I'm different I see how lonely I've truly been and can work on my other issues. That and my shrink wants to make sure I'm not violent, which I'm not but who knows what might happen in the future.
I think much like people with Autism, sociopaths need support and guidance from "normal" people.
I think one of the reasons we get into so much trouble with the law is not just because we don't get empathy or guilt but because we can become self-destructive as a result of isolation. It is rough "playing human" all day. If we could only be a little more open and honest we wouldn't have as much pressure on us and would probably be better off. At least I have a shrink I can be open and honest about.
Location: where you sip the tea of the breasts of the spinsters of Utica
8,297 posts, read 14,166,733 times
Reputation: 8105
Quote:
Originally Posted by victorianpunk
So, after everyone and their grandmother has told me I should see a shrink for my issues, I finally started. After several secessions he sent me to see a specialist...and that specialist sent me to another specialist. We talk and talked and I answered a bunch of questions and finally he got this serious look on his face and asked me if I was ready for a diagnosis. As it turns out, the Nietzschean philosophy I've always believed in, sense before I could pronounce "Nietzsche", and the fact that I don't really love anyone and generally do what I can get away with and the fact that I now admit I can't really emphasize with anyone means that, while I'm not a full blown "prostitutes buried under the backyard" kind, I do indeed have sociopathic and psychopathic tendencies. My shrink told me that these things aren't really black or white but are more on a spectrum, and I'm on an end of the sociopath spectrum but not the far end.
.....
Is your shrink in your head?
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) movement: sociopath pride. Hell, nothing is going on in August, how about August becomes sociopath pride month? 
