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Old 12-30-2018, 08:44 AM
 
Location: Colorado (PA at heart)
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I don't think anyone really knows the answer to that question - even experts in the field have been arguing over nature vs nuture for years. It's probably some combination of both, at least in some cases - how much of each may depend on the individual.
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Old 12-30-2018, 10:47 AM
 
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The so-called "nature vs. nuture" conundrum is a false dichotomy. And trying to assign percentages to each one has no empirical basis.

Issues like this have been discussed by Richard Lewontin, a brilliant evolutionary biologist, mathematician, geneticist, and social commentator.

He points out, rightly so, that natures interacts with nurture, and nurture interacts with nature, so that one can't in any meaningful way separate the the two. Both of them influence and effect each other.

He discusses this in various works, but one is The Triple Helix: Gene, Organism, and Environment.
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Old 12-30-2018, 11:00 AM
 
Location: State of Transition
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eman Resu VIII View Post
I honestly think we live in a society that breeds narcissism. The whole emphasis on outdoing your neighbour. Having the most, being the most "successful", making the most money, having the best possessions. I believe it is mostly learned behaviour. The corporate world and capitalism breed narcissistic traits in people. Arrogance and pride in one's material wealth is seen as power in the west. Social media in the last 15 years has only made the problem worse, especially among the younger generation. People who have not yet achieved a thing in their life parade themselves on social media for attention and "likes", a distraction from the development of their real character. I found the narcissism evident among young girls and boys at college bad enough when I was in education back in 2003-2006. I can only imagine it is far, far worse now since the smartphone and facebook.

True (pathologically) sociopathic individuals are pretty rare. It is very common now for people to armchair-diagnose someone with "narcissism", when in reality they would not qualify for the pathological condition. It's often easier to label an ex-partner in this way to avoid our own responsibility for our own failings and irresponsibility in the relationship.

In almost all cases I have seen a woman for example, armchair-diagnose an ex-husband as a narcissist, in an online article, I noticed that the way the article is written, and examples of her own actions and behaviour made her out to be every bit as bad as he apparently was. And, you see, we are only hearing one side of the story. So unless somebody has an official diagnosis of a condition, I take any loose talk of actual Narcissistic Personality Disorder with a very big lump of salt.

Anyway, these are just some thoughts on the matter. Feel free to disagree.
I've never observed the bolded in real life. What emphasis on outdoing your neighbor? Neighbors don't even communicate in today's society, with some exceptions. How would anyone know what the neighbor does or has? lol. No one would know what kind of vacations they take, or if they have a vacation home or not, etc. My observation is that everyone's different. People raised by parents who went through the Depression, or who are grandchildren of the Depression generation, generally aren't into collecting a lot of stuff. Others are environmentally-minded, so they don't participate in the consumerist culture.

Narcissism is created long before people get into the work world, the corporate world. It starts in the earliest years, grade school age or younger, even, and builds from there. Early trauma is at the root of some cases. Parents with high expectations, perhaps unrealistically high, and a child who can't measure up, so s/he learns to fake it, and boast about himself, is a factor in other cases. The corporate world doesn't create narcissism, but it does tend toward rewarding it, that's been studied.
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Old 12-30-2018, 12:13 PM
 
Location: equator
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I only have my own observations, but both ex's were total narcissists and both had brutal upbringings.

I misinterpreted this quality as confidence, early on. Mistake!
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Old 12-30-2018, 12:24 PM
Status: "2019, the year without summer." (set 3 days ago)
 
Location: Sheffield, England
1,411 posts, read 227,801 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruth4Truth View Post
I've never observed the bolded in real life. What emphasis on outdoing your neighbor? Neighbors don't even communicate in today's society, with some exceptions. How would anyone know what the neighbor does or has? lol. No one would know what kind of vacations they take, or if they have a vacation home or not, etc.
"Outdoing the neighbour" is a metaphorical saying we use in the UK a lot. Another one would be "keeping up with the Joneses". Wanting to be better than other people, is the meaning. If you have never seen that attitude anywhere I would be very surprised. The world is full of people wanting to be and look better than others.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruth4Truth View Post
My observation is that everyone's different. People raised by parents who went through the Depression, or who are grandchildren of the Depression generation, generally aren't into collecting a lot of stuff. Others are environmentally-minded, so they don't participate in the consumerist culture.
Of course not everybody is like that. But we cannot pretend that the western world isn't dominated by the ideas of competing with others for the best resources, wealth and material success. I'd like to see more emphasis on sharing what we have and not acquiring more than we need.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruth4Truth View Post
Narcissism is created long before people get into the work world, the corporate world. It starts in the earliest years, grade school age or younger, even, and builds from there. Early trauma is at the root of some cases.
Where do you think children are learning it from? Children pick up their learned behaviours from the adults closest to them through osmosis (meant metaphorically). Children with more materialist, money driven parents are learning these behaviours from their parents. I have seen it myself with school bullies who would have parents who riddled them with toys, gadgets, games consoles and then would make that into a competition to outdo other children in the school, or use their perceived status to bully and scorn other pupils.

I don't exclude other factors such as childhood trauma.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruth4Truth View Post
Parents with high expectations, perhaps unrealistically high, and a child who can't measure up, so s/he learns to fake it, and boast about himself, is a factor in other cases. The corporate world doesn't create narcissism, but it does tend toward rewarding it, that's been studied.

I didn't say it has created it, but that it breeds it, and so I'd agree that it tends towards rewarding it.

Last edited by Eman Resu VIII; 12-30-2018 at 12:39 PM..
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Old 12-30-2018, 01:02 PM
 
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Narcissism can run in families. There can be signs very early, not from trauma but just wired that way. Some wiring is really off with true narcissists, the fact that they can't see anything wrong with themselves ever.
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Old 12-30-2018, 02:22 PM
 
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Thank you all for your thoughts. I am just asking this question for one reason. I am a 45 years old, I do not know psychology, and I just recently noticed some posts on facebook talking about empath/narcissist. I started making some online searches on the internet to know better about these two synonyms. Before that, I just considered narcissist as bad people trying to damage and play you just because they are raised this way.
Now I have different thoughts after I learned about empath/narcissist. So if a narcissist is naturally born this way, they should not be judged because it is not their fault, even though "they think what they are doing is correct and they do not apologize for it and ..."
Same way in the wild life, the leopard wants to eat by nature, that's why it attacks its prey to survive. Narcissists (vampire energies), as they are defined in many posts, tries to nurture themselves by attacking or sucking the energy of other empaths/people so they can survive.


Thank you again for your replies.

Last edited by abeeraad; 12-30-2018 at 02:38 PM..
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Old 12-30-2018, 03:47 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by abeeraad View Post
Good afternoon,


I just want to know if empaths/narcissists are born this way by nature or they became empaths/narcissists due to social interactions and due to their history.
Thank you.
I honestly don't think it is always one or the other. I truly believe that some are born and some are made.
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Old 12-30-2018, 03:53 PM
 
12,018 posts, read 6,622,146 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by abeeraad View Post
Thank you all for your thoughts. I am just asking this question for one reason. I am a 45 years old, I do not know psychology, and I just recently noticed some posts on facebook talking about empath/narcissist. I started making some online searches on the internet to know better about these two synonyms. Before that, I just considered narcissist as bad people trying to damage and play you just because they are raised this way.
Now I have different thoughts after I learned about empath/narcissist. So if a narcissist is naturally born this way, they should not be judged because it is not their fault, even though "they think what they are doing is correct and they do not apologize for it and ..."
Same way in the wild life, the leopard wants to eat by nature, that's why it attacks its prey to survive. Narcissists (vampire energies), as they are defined in many posts, tries to nurture themselves by attacking or sucking the energy of other empaths/people so they can survive.


Thank you again for your replies.
You can enable them if you want but that makes you one of their victims or a tool to help them victimize others. Best thing for the world is to starve a narcissist as if it were a malignant tumor, they are nothing like a beautiful leopard. Tumor just wants to feed too but we put all efforts into protecting ourselves from its ugly destructiveness.
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Old 12-30-2018, 04:15 PM
 
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@tamajane.
I am not trying to enable them. I have lived with two narcissist cases and I end up in rejecting them and preventing them from seeing/talking to me. At the same time, if narcissist is a natural tumor, I guess it is not the narcissist fault.
I have read that narcissist cannot be treated. So my next question is if they can be cured or not.
Thank you.
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