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Yes, The Triangle is catching up to Pittsburgh. So you are combining Raleigh and Durham. They are two different cities. And you're throwing in Chapel Hill for good measure.
Apples to apples comparison, Raleigh vs Pittsburgh, it's not even close.
Why does this bother people? Raleigh is small, there's nothing wrong with that. That's why many of us chose to live here.
It doesn't bother me, but it's a bit confusing because the population of Pittsburgh is 300k and the population of Raleigh is 450k. I believe that is why people expect Raleigh to have a downtown urban center comparable to Pittsburgh, and are often disappointed to find it does not. I understand that the populations of the metro areas are different and obviously factor in. Raleigh is just....different.
It doesn't bother me, but it's a bit confusing because the population of Pittsburgh is 300k and the population of Raleigh is 450k. I believe that is why people expect Raleigh to have a downtown urban center comparable to Pittsburgh, and are often disappointed to find it does not. I understand that the populations of the metro areas are different and obviously factor in. Raleigh is just....different.
It's unfortunate that people are unaware of or don't factor in the eras when cities began hitting their stride and developing their urban core and core neighborhoods. That is the primary determinant when it comes to how a city's downtown is laid out and built up (pre-WW2 era vs post-WW2 era), not municipal population. The second determinant will be population density which is typically related to the first determinant; sure Raleigh has a larger city population than Pittsburgh but it's also physically larger than Pittsburgh by nearly 100 square miles. I especially feel sorry for all the people who expect San Jose to have a more developed urban core than San Francisco based on municipal population.
It's unfortunate that people are unaware of or don't factor in the eras when cities began hitting their stride and developing their urban core and core neighborhoods. That is the primary determinant when it comes to how a city's downtown is laid out and built up (pre-WW2 era vs post-WW2 era), not municipal population. The second determinant will be population density which is typically related to the first determinant; sure Raleigh has a larger city population than Pittsburgh but it's also physically larger than Pittsburgh by nearly 100 square miles. I especially feel sorry for all the people who expect San Jose to have a more developed urban core than San Francisco based on municipal population.
This. Pittsburgh's population was almost 700,000 in 1940. Raleigh's was less than 50,000 at that time. And as noted, Pittsburgh is physically smaller. Thats why Pittsburgh feels bigger even today.
Yes, The Triangle is catching up to Pittsburgh. So you are combining Raleigh and Durham. They are two different cities. And you're throwing in Chapel Hill for good measure.
Apples to apples comparison, Raleigh vs Pittsburgh, it's not even close.
Why does this bother people? Raleigh is small, there's nothing wrong with that. That's why many of us chose to live here.
Might I remind you that it was you who started the 3 million/2 million narrative in a much earlier post and included Raleigh and Durham. I am just clarifying the data.
Downtown IS walkabe but not large. There are some interesting older buildings, and some good restaurants and museums downtown, but the NC Art Museum is a bit of a drive. Sprawl is relative. There are walkable inner ring neighborhoods such as Oakwood, Mordecai, Hayes Barton, and Five Points. These area don't really have their own self contained shopping districts but have a mix of older homes in varying architectural styles. these are all areas inside the 440 loop. Also note that there is a fair amount of new construction infill happening in near East and near Southeastern Raleigh but prices are high there for the size of house ($450K average for 1500 sq ft.)
There are plenty of early outer ring suburbs - circa 1980's, that have shopping conveniently located nearby, houses that vary in style, and were built in such a way that the varied terrain and mature trees were preserved. Thus, they have the feel of older and more mature neighborhoods. For the most part, these are 15 to 20 minutes form downtown or the airport by car - pretty darn convenient for many of us.
The new outer ring suburbs - just below and also beyond the outer 540 loop are often flatter, more cookie cutter style houses, and sometimes also very wide open with few if any mature trees. There are lots of exceptions to this, to be certain, but that's what we have observed.
Sprawl is everywhere, but having considered the DC metro area, Denver, and Charlotte, we feel that Raleigh is well designed for a city its size, and traffic generally flows very smoothly (excluding 440 and 540 at rush hour.) Charlotte has a LOT more sprawl and terrible traffic issues.
Of the cities mentioned, I think Raleigh has a feel closer to Denver than to any of the others.
Enjoyed your post. I haven’t been keeping up with this thread but I found it interesting that you mentioned that Raleigh felt a lot like Denver.
My wife’s cousin and her husband recently visited from Orlando. We took them downtown Raleigh on an early Sunday. We parked at the Green Square parking deck, took them to the science museum, and then made a loop around downtown showing them some spots they might like. First the Capitol building, then to The Raleigh Times, then down Faytteville St, and finally back up McDowell St. where we stopped at The Whiskey Kitchen before heading back to our car. Because of the husbands job, he travels a lot and gets to spend extended time in various cities especially their downtowns. Not only did they really enjoy walking around Raleigh for the first time but he specifically mentioned that it ALSO reminded him of Denver.
Now I don’t know much about Denver and I’ve never been there. But I know it typically is recognized as a “cool” city for its walkability and interesting districts. I felt proud for little Raleigh, especially since we didn’t even get to show them some of the “coolest” parts like Glenwood and the Warehouse District. Now I’m not saying that Raleigh does indeed compare to Denver but I would say that there is evidence that it’s core is going in the right direction.
Enjoyed your post. I haven’t been keeping up with this thread but I found it interesting that you mentioned that Raleigh felt a lot like Denver.
My wife’s cousin and her husband recently visited from Orlando. We took them downtown Raleigh on an early Sunday. We parked at the Green Square parking deck, took them to the science museum, and then made a loop around downtown showing them some spots they might like. First the Capitol building, then to The Raleigh Times, then down Faytteville St, and finally back up McDowell St. where we stopped at The Whiskey Kitchen before heading back to our car. Because of the husbands job, he travels a lot and gets to spend extended time in various cities especially their downtowns. Not only did they really enjoy walking around Raleigh for the first time but he specifically mentioned that it ALSO reminded him of Denver.
Now I don’t know much about Denver and I’ve never been there. But I know it typically is recognized as a “cool” city for its walkability and interesting districts. I felt proud for little Raleigh, especially since we didn’t even get to show them some of the “coolest” parts like Glenwood and the Warehouse District. Now I’m not saying that Raleigh does indeed compare to Denver but I would say that there is evidence that it’s core is going in the right direction.
That is a compliment no doubt. Denver is a nice, clean city with a cool downtown and surrounding areas. Just like Raleigh the city has been flooded over recent years with millenials and is considered a big tech city, hence they are also on Amazon's shortlist. I gladly welcome the comparison of Raleigh to Denver.
That is a compliment no doubt. Denver is a nice, clean city with a cool downtown and surrounding areas. Just like Raleigh the city has been flooded over recent years with millenials and is considered a big tech city, hence they are also on Amazon's shortlist. I gladly welcome the comparison of Raleigh to Denver.
Yeah I suppose that makes sense. Similiar vibes with probably similiar demographics. Not really sure I’ve ever heard someone have a bad thing to say about Denver so if we continue reflecting it but with a southern twang I can be all for it lol.
Yeah I suppose that makes sense. Similiar vibes with probably similiar demographics. Not really sure I’ve ever heard someone have a bad thing to say about Denver so if we continue reflecting it but with a southern twang I can be all for it lol.
Denver is similar to Raleigh in a number of ways, but what sticks out the most in my mind is that both cities are not culturally characteristic of the regions in which they are located.
Raleigh is clearly in the southeast, but yet has lost most of the southern flavor that you'll find in other southeastern cities like Charlotte, Columbia, Birmingham, and even Atlanta to a certain extent.
Denver is located on the border of the Midwest and West, but yet it feels more like Portland and Seattle in the pacific northwest than it does a traditional midwestern city like Kansas City, for example.
It's what Raleigh may become that needs to be considered.
The city is becoming ban overcrowded trash heap when transportation is considered. With the legislature scrapping rail years ago, there will be total gridlock if the garbage roads are asked to support a large increase in use from things such as the Amazon project.
The trash being built now has about a 5 year good life and will become our new slums.
Unless growth can be controlled, our city will become another piece of trash.
It's what Raleigh may become that needs to be considered.
The city is becoming ban overcrowded trash heap when transportation is considered. With the legislature scrapping rail years ago, there will be total gridlock if the garbage roads are asked to support a large increase in use from things such as the Amazon project.
The trash being built now has about a 5 year good life and will become our new slums.
Unless growth can be controlled, our city will become another piece of trash.
One person’s trash is another person’s treasure.
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