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We are under contract for a beautiful house that is perfect for us in almost every way. We were worried about it having foundation issues because there is a crack in the outside brick wall. In our area, all the houses are built on extremely expansive clay, so these problems are common in houses around here. This house is 19 years old (built in 1992). We hired the best home inspector in the area (based on experience, credentials, and personal references). He found a few minor problems with the house that we are asking the seller to fix. He also talked to me in depth about the crack.
Basically, the house sits on a hill and the backyard slopes down toward the house. The yard has great drainage on the sides, taking water away from the house. However, there is a spot in the backyard where it looks like water might collect. He believes this area, along with the homeowner not watering the foundation, have caused the house to shift seasonally. He says the crack in the brick probably shrinks in the winter and opens back up in the summer. He says that if we water the foundation properly and install a drain in the area of the yard that is not draining properly, we would essentially stop movement from occurring and the house will remain structurally sound.
Here is the page from the inspection report about the foundation. It is only one large crack, not two. This is the only significant crack on the house. The other ones are so small that neither I nor my grandfather (who is an architect) even noticed them when we looked at the house:
He also said that one side of the house is slightly lower than the rest, however if you place a level on the side of the house that seems lower, the level is flat.
Should we get an engineer to examine this house? We were going to do this, but our inspector seems very confident that it would be unnecessary.
We have a structural engineer out here that will come out to inspect cracks for $150 and give the buyer a verbal report on the house. Totally worth the money. If you want a full written report then it costs more, but it's been great for situations like yours. I'd see if you have one in your area that does something similar.
I suspect that the inspector did a pretty thorough inspection. I don't know if an engineer could do a better job UNLESS they set up the equipment for an extended analysis. Even if that equipment were setup it really cannot tell you WHY those existing cracks happened so much as whether they are "stable" or still getting worse.
The thing that I have run into is that most engineering firms that do have the equipment and skills to really determine what is wrong with such a structure are setup to recommend repairs. Often those repairs are kind of designed to be "overkill" that result in high costs (but a house that could ride out an magnitude 9 earthquake...).
I might consider talking to firms that specialize in foundation repairs ESPECIALLY if these sorts of problems are common due to local soil conditions. Frankly I would want these FIXED!
Ex[ansive clay soil is a big buzzword in Phoenix Metro. Causes huge cracks, and that is with about 9 inches of rain per year. Avoid! That inspector doesn't want to blow the deal, but i doubt he would buy it.
Ex[ansive clay soil is a big buzzword in Phoenix Metro. Causes huge cracks, and that is with about 9 inches of rain per year. Avoid! That inspector doesn't want to blow the deal, but i doubt he would buy it.
This inspector doesn't care about blowing the deal. He isn't involved with the homeowner or either agents at all, nor did he even meet them at any point. (We found and hired him ourselves). What would he gain by blowing it? He also said his house has more cracks than this one.
Thanks for all the info everyone! If we were going to hire an engineer, it would be someone who does not work for a foundation company and does not do any sort of foundation repair work. It seems like a conflict of interest.
The current homeowner had a foundation inspection done on the house when she moved in (2006) and the house checked out at that time. I'm still somewhat nervous though. And I don't know of any engineers that will come out for $150. I don't know that anything they would have to say for that amount of money would really be worth anything, either. The going rate around here is $600 for an actual foundation inspection.
And I don't know of any engineers that will come out for $150. I don't know that anything they would have to say for that amount of money would really be worth anything, either.
Welcome to the recession. Lots of engineers offering things they never imagined doing. He just started offering that service this year.
does the crack go all the way down to the foundation and all the way up to the roof? the picture does not show the extent of the crack. It may very well be a foundation problem but i think there may be a few other possibilities. you will need a masonry expert to come and take a good look at the house.
does the crack go all the way down to the foundation and all the way up to the roof? the picture does not show the extent of the crack. It may very well be a foundation problem but i think there may be a few other possibilities. you will need a masonry expert to come and take a good look at the house.
I goes from the bottom of the brick to the top of the brick. Not to the roof, though. It does get wider towards the top but only wide enough to stick a few quarters in...less than 1/4 cm. I know it is a settlement crack for sure. But the home inspector seemed positive that it was a seasonal crack and could essentially be "frozen" if we follow the right precautions (installing the drain in the backyard and watering the foundation in the dry months).
My realtor and the home inspector are both insisting that it would be a waste of money to hire an engineer and my fiance is agreeing with them. I just want to make sure we're not crazy for not doing so.
I don't think you are crazy. The inspection report says the drywall is cracked as well. That tells me that this is something that caused quite a bit of movement, and I would want it fixed.
I would also want to know if the crack is stable or moving. If it is moving it will almost certainly cost you money the road.
Finally I would like to think that despite the fact this house is beautiful, you are getting a good enough deal compared to other houses that may not be so beautiful but are free from such cracks, that you will be able to justify making repairs to the house w/o so blowing the budget as to make the house impossible to sell and other than a big loss. Generally it is cheap to beautify a home but very costly to repair things like brick and drywall...
I goes from the bottom of the brick to the top of the brick. Not to the roof, though. It does get wider towards the top but only wide enough to stick a few quarters in...less than 1/4 cm. I know it is a settlement crack for sure. But the home inspector seemed positive that it was a seasonal crack and could essentially be "frozen" if we follow the right precautions (installing the drain in the backyard and watering the foundation in the dry months).
My realtor and the home inspector are both insisting that it would be a waste of money to hire an engineer and my fiance is agreeing with them. I just want to make sure we're not crazy for not doing so.
That is a very small picture but the crack is surely VERY visible meaning it must be significant! The crack you described, narrow at the bottom and wider at the top, sure sounds like foundation movement. Read the report wording:
Quote:
Good drainage and keeping the soils near the house moistenedin the dry seasons will help minimize future movement.
I don't see anything in there that states it will stop or prevent future movement. You're concerned about spending $600 for an engineer but think of how much you might spend in the future if the inspectors recommendations don't do any good??
If you try to chase the inspector later he will just fall back on his report and what he wrote certainly is not incorrect at this time. Sure the structure is not in any jeopardy right now. But how easy would it be to blame you for not properly maintaining it and the soil moisture levels later? It would be very easy to blame you and he does not have to prove anything, you will. Yes the crack might move seasonally with the moisture levels. How much damage is going to be caused (cosmetic or other) as it moves if you don't fix it??
Either spend the money and have a highly qualified engineer review it and provide a written report, not a verbal report, never a verbal report, or back out of the deal and save the $600 for the next home inspection.
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