are buyer's just wasting our time?? (tenants, investments, mortgage, lawyer)

[VMH2507]

Since you quoted my post, I thought you were referencing something I said, but I must have been mistaken since I only joined the discussion in the later stages. Sorry.

[garth]

Originally Posted by turnerfamily

(Do my property taxes reflect my market value drop during these hard times-NO!)

The answer isn't "No." The answeris "Sometimes," "Maybe," or "It can be done." It requires you to petition your local agency to lower their appraisal of your property based on (fill in the blank). The bank can be filled in with recent lower sale prices in your area (comps) or professional lower appraisals of your property. Just see what they need to get the job done.

Your local agency will have a system in place to challange the taxes applied to your property. It will require work on your part, but you can get them dropped.

[AnthonyB]

Originally Posted by jimj

Never said that, re-read what I posted if it helps. People need to remember that there's real people losing real money (some their life savings) not profit, but what they had in the property because of this mess and it kind of galls me that some are dancing, rubbing their hands together so THEY (or friends,family etc) can buy a house cheaper or at all.
Where exactly did this idea that anyone has a RIGHT to own a house come from? You don't! You have the right to "life, liberty and the pursuit of happyness" not the 3bd 2ba bungalow down the street. Or, That it's somehow unfair if they can't? For example, I would love to buy a corvette but the bottom hasn't dropped out of that market so I can't get it cheap enough. Shall we wait for a crash and companies to go belly up so I can get one on the cheap?


I can't argue that flipping has caused some issues, but they risked their money and either won or lost. This is a capitalist country and trying to make money is what people do. I have to wonder though, if those houses were being rehabbed what must they have been like before? Certainly not showplaces right? Couldn't have been good for the resale of the neighborhood then could it?

What absolute drivel.
Who said owning a house was a right? Who said making a profit on a house is a right? Who said finding a person willing to pay asking is a right? You seem to love capitalism except when you end up on the wrong side of it. Who said above average appreciation wouldn't be followed by depreciation?

There ARE real people losing real money. And for the most part because they were fed a bill of goods - that unlimited credit is your friend and housing only goes up. So they bought and they rehabbed, because some salesman told them that a house was an investment, not a place to live. So you want MORE real people to lose more money, because the party has to end some time.
And why the hell shouldn't someone who maybe saved frugally for years and looks at taking on half a lifetime of debt be pleased if that debt load may be lessened somewhat? Your talking here about nurses, receptionists, mechanics, teachers. Regular middle class people who work for a living looking at handing over 30% of their income for housing rather than 50%. So they can actually afford a decent car, summer camp for the kids. Why shouldn't someone in that position be relieved? Or even jubilant. Some people profited greatly at the expense of others on the way up, so some others will profit on the way down - it is called free market capitalism.

As for flippers and older properties - flippers are not the same as developers. Real developers and contractors truly upgrade a property. Flippers paint lipstick on the pig. And no, their empty properties don't do anything for resale values, quite the contrary, flipper heavy markets are the ones crashing the fastest -they created an artificial market. And an unsustainable one.

[VMH2507]

It depends on where you live, the roadblocks that they will put in your way. When I lived in TX about 10 years ago, I sat the appraisal district's office with hundreds of other residents protesting appraisal to no avail. Of course this was when they continually raised appraisal even though prices were not going up that much.

I bought a house in GA a couple of years ago and even when I presented evidence of the price paid a couple of months before, they refused to lower the appraisal to the actual figure that I had paid for the property. They said just because I had gotten a good deal that didn't mean the house wasn't worth more for tax purposes. I also pointed out to them that the house had been on the market for less than appraisal for at least 6 months with no takers. Never did get any satisfaction.

[VMH2507]

Areas become "flipper heavy" because the area has the perceived ability to turn a larger profit. If you have watched the flipping shows on TV, you will note in the vast majority of cases the people are doing a lot more than putting lipstick on a pig. Many of the CA episodes the people turned a trashed place unfit for anyone to live in into a nice family home. This in may cases included new roofs, repaired plumbing and electrical, replacing rotting wood, removing moldy drywall, etc. Where people have gotten the idea that flippers are just putting lipstick on a pig is hard for me to see. Yes there is the occassional sleezeball who is trying to rip people off, but there are crooks in every walk of life. The majority are using decorating and handy man talents to improve the property and I don't understand why people object to their being paid for their work.
I guess I feel a little sensitive to this issue because I fixed up a house and sold for a profit about a year ago. In the process, I put new roof, power-washed and restained exterior, painted interior, added 2nd fireplace with stacked stone face, layed hardwood floors and ceramic tile throughout house, redid one bath with new tub with ceramic tile surround, new toilet, and new vanity with ceramic tile counter, redid kitchen with granite countertop and all new appliances, added french doors to back deck and replaced all all fixtures throughout house. I think that is a little more than "putting lipstick on a pig".

[jimj]

I would have to agree, I did a house like that, when we bought it there was a lot of work to do. It had been on the market for 2 years and was a party house prior to that. There had been NO maintenence done for many years. We tore out all of the flooring, I mean all of it, replaced the roof, tore out 60's wallpaper and repainted inside and out, paved both driveways, replaced all the doors and windows,gutted the kitchen and replaces all cabinets,counters and appliances and re-lanscaped to the tune of about 40k. Mighty expensive lipstick. Agents walked through after we were done and couldn't believe it was the same house.
We even had a pizza delivered and the guy asked if he could see it since he had been in there so many times before we got it and it was a mess.

[AnthonyB]

What you are both describing, except for roofing, is cosmetic. Period.
A true rehab/ upgrade will usually mean updating wiring/plumbing the heating system, sheetrock (or plaster where applicable) and the like - really tearing apart a house to the bare bones and starting over. Less "Flip this House" and more "This Old House".

Flipping became a self fulfilling prophecy of ever rising property values (until people ran out of money, or at least the banks did).

For example.
In my area median salary is $62k. Five years ago it was $58k -not a big difference and typical slow wage appreciation as seen across the US.
Five years ago there were plenty of older developments - 1960's ranches, usually original owners, basically sound but in need of an update. Prices in 2000 were typically around $150-$180, about right for a young couple to move in and do up in their own time and to their own taste.
Then the flipping started up.
In 2005 the same developments are half original and half "remodelled",and frequently not very well- all with identical recessed lighting, granite countertops, Home Depot kitchen and wood floor in the living room. The remodelled asking price - $450k and the originals $350k. Trouble is,people who can afford $450 for a house (without a liar loan mortgage) don't want a tarted up 1960's ranch in an older neighbourhood. And young couples looking for a cheap fixer-upper either can't afford the originals, or the price isn't worth the work needed.

So the houses sit empty and everyone is frustrated.
I don't have a problem with fixing something up, but it became a craze. A craze which encouraged people to jump in and buy real estate they couldn't afford because "prices always go up and you can always refinance". A lot of people heve been hurt, not by buyers who can't pay asking prices outside the realm of real incomes, but by overenthusiasm -to even spending too much money doing too much to a house.

If you are lucky to have lived in areas that haven't been hit as hard by the mania, feel lucky and look out for the warning signs.
In my area, people aren't losing $20k, they are losing six figures.

[turnerfamily]

Now you've got visions of sugar plums dancing in your head.

Your local agency will have a system in place to challange the taxes applied to your property. It will require work on your part, but you can get them dropped.[/quote]

[yellowsnow]

I did get my property taxes lowered when I lived in Utah. I just had to have the recent solds to illustrate it was extremely unlikely my home would sell for it's valuation price. I think different states have different requirements.

I love hearing people talk about all these huge increases in values. I guess I'm just in the wrong place. My home appraised for 388K in 2000 and 390K in 2007. That's some huge appreciation. I can't sell it anyway! Yeah that 2K represents me taking advantage of some poor buyer.

[VMH2507]

The house I fixed was for sale for at least 6 months in early 2005 (market was booming in the area at the time) with no takers. If the young couples wanted to buy and fix up, they certainly could have. They were all turned off by it's appearance. In actuality I paid what the 1.7 acre lot on golf course and small lake was worth without the house. When I sold and made a profit, there were new homes being built and sold for twice the price I got for mine. I don't think my "flip" had any impact on the overall price of houses in the area.