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Interesting perspective. When I made an offer on my house, there were 3 other offers. The seller's agent came back with the request for your highest & best offer. I was not willing to budge on my initial offer and I wanted the house. Two years ago, I really didn't want to pay full asking price, but all the houses that were below <275K in my area, needed lots of work. I wanted as close to walk-in-ready, as possible. As it turned out, my offer was accepted. Even 2 years ago, competition was pretty stiff, but I think lots of people had the same idea as I, that they didn't want to pay full asking price. I'm so glad I stayed the course.
Exactly what I'm talking about!
Buyers need to spend a little less time worring about what other people are doing and just concentrate on what they are doing themselves. In a multiple offer situation, you never know what others are offering. The other offers could be low balls just as easily as they could be over asking. Just offer something you feel is reasonable and an amount where if you don't get the house you won't be kicking yourself over it the next day.
NYC real estate is a whole other beast compared to the rest of the country. They don't have an MLS for starters so they don't have a set of rules like most other areas have. We don't register bids. It is state law to present them all. The seller is required to sign a copy of your offer indicating it was presented to them. Here you would know if your offer was presented to the seller. Unless the agent is forging the sellers signature.
In your market, can the buyer actually request and view the signed document indicating the seller saw the bid or does the buyer have to take a real estate agent's word for it? If it's the latter, then that's no protection for the buyer at all. In that case, you're assuming the agent is telling you the truth, which can sometimes be a big stretch.
I'm not in NYC. I'm out on Long Island, which is a much different world except for the fact that the cutthroat culture and lack of morality is probably the same as in Manhattan. We do have an MLS out here and perhaps it is possible today to verify that the sellers actually received your bid. Also, I think it's a big leap of faith to assume that the presence of an MLS ensures a fair and honest marketplace.
My episode happened about 15 years ago. We were exceptional buyers with an exceptionally strong credit rating, high equity in the home we were planning to buy and no other issues that might cause the sellers to balk. We just assumed that someone had outbid us and we only learned of the lower sale price a couple months later. My agent registered the bid with MLS so we all automatically assumed that the seller had seen it. We talked later to some agents we knew and they said that, although it was illegal not to present a bid to the seller, it did happen periodically in our market because some greedy agents wanted to keep the entire commission.
My episode happened about 15 years ago. We were exceptional buyers with an exceptionally strong credit rating, high equity in the home we were planning to buy and no other issues that might cause the sellers to balk. We just assumed that someone had outbid us and we only learned of the lower sale price a couple months later. My agent registered the bid with MLS so we all automatically assumed that the seller had seen it. We talked later to some agents we knew and they said that, although it was illegal not to present a bid to the seller, it did happen periodically in our market because some greedy agents wanted to keep the entire commission.
I have no doubt that this happens all the time (I'm a broker in Illinois, for whatever that's worth). My husband and I just found ourselves in a multiple offer situation on the house we wanted. We went in with our highest and best (which was still far below asking) and our offer was selected. However, since the beginning the list agent has been doing everything he can to try and get us to walk away because the other offer was from his office. He would not allow us to see the property a second time, convinced his seller that our repair requests after the inspection were completely unreasonable (they weren't) and has really just made the entire process awful when there is no reason for it.
I know the other offer was from his office because he even double booked our first showing and the other agent and buyers were viewing the house at the same time, so I met them. I find it very sad that he is willing to try and convince his sellers to take a lower/weaker offer just so he can get a higher commission. I don't know how much the other couple offered, but it must have been significantly lower because this agent has done everything he can to dissuade the seller from continuing with us.
My episode happened about 15 years ago. We were exceptional buyers with an exceptionally strong credit rating, high equity in the home we were planning to buy and no other issues that might cause the sellers to balk. We just assumed that someone had outbid us and we only learned of the lower sale price a couple months later. My agent registered the bid with MLS so we all automatically assumed that the seller had seen it. We talked later to some agents we knew and they said that, although it was illegal not to present a bid to the seller, it did happen periodically in our market because some greedy agents wanted to keep the entire commission.
I'm not sure about being illegal...
I tried to buy a property a few years ago and the lawyer representing the estate said it would not consider any offer below the list price for 30 days... The Broker said his hands were tied for 30-days unless the offer was at list of better. The Broker furnished a copy of the letter.
The last home I tried to buy was the most frustrating of all... couldn't get the time of day from the Listing Agent/Broker other than the home was pending... I insisted on making a back-up offer and that didn't go well.
I knew the seller... well actually the deceased husband of the seller and looked up her phone number in my club roster... I offered full price cash, as-is, with a quick close in writing to the seller... that did get every one's attention and unknown to me... my offer was a 100k over the accepted offer...
Twice I was told the buyer was out of contract and I had to move fast... in the end... the buyer closed on the last day of the contract...
The Seller was very disappointed to leave 100k on the table and the Broker wanted to show me other listings... NOTHING is anywhere remotely similar at any price...
The property was custom built on acreage by a car collector with means... the shop looked like a home and was larger than the 3600 square foot home... The buyer and I became acquainted and in the last 6 months has had several opportunities to resell and pocket several hundred and one of those was from me...
I agree that many experienced buyers/sellers have run into these issues, so, for them it is old, but, never ending news. However, I feel the young, new buyers need to know how to defend themselves from experienced commissioned sales people (including car sales people) who do this on a daily basis. The segment pointed out some terminology a new buyer may not understand as well as interesting comments from a top New York realtor regarding not presenting offers from other realtors so as to not share their precious commissions.
In your market, can the buyer actually request and view the signed document indicating the seller saw the bid
Yes. The buyer gets a copy of it as part of our paperwork. They have to acknowledge receipt of the sellers response.
The presence of the MLS doesn't ensure a fair marketplace but there are rules that agents have to follow if they don't want to be booted from it or they want cooperation. Just saying that is different than NYC which doesn't have one. There is more of an incentive was my point.
How do you know that the lower sales price wasn't negotiated later in the deal? I request price drops all the time over condition issues. I strongly prefer, as do most of my clients, that they take on repairs so that they can ensure quality work. I just negotiated an $8k price drop on a property to compensate for things we found on the home inspection. Seller was glad to not take on the repair. If the lower price is your source of information for your offer not being presented, I find that dubious. How much lower was the final sales price than your offer?
In your market, can the buyer actually request and view the signed document indicating the seller saw the bid or does the buyer have to take a real estate agent's word for it? If it's the latter, then that's no protection for the buyer at all. In that case, you're assuming the agent is telling you the truth, which can sometimes be a big stretch...
That is up to the seller. I have on occasion with the sellers permission disclosed the offers to the other involved parties in attempt to get a better offer. Ultimately the agent works for the seller and the seller decides which course they want to take.
Yes. The buyer gets a copy of it as part of our paperwork. They have to acknowledge receipt of the sellers response.
The presence of the MLS doesn't ensure a fair marketplace but there are rules that agents have to follow if they don't want to be booted from it or they want cooperation. Just saying that is different than NYC which doesn't have one. There is more of an incentive was my point.
How do you know that the lower sales price wasn't negotiated later in the deal? I request price drops all the time over condition issues. I strongly prefer, as do most of my clients, that they take on repairs so that they can ensure quality work. I just negotiated an $8k price drop on a property to compensate for things we found on the home inspection. Seller was glad to not take on the repair. If the lower price is your source of information for your offer not being presented, I find that dubious. How much lower was the final sales price than your offer?
Just curious. Do you know which agents were booted? Does this actually happen? Does the punishment fit the crime? It's interesting!
Just curious. Do you know which agents were booted? Does this actually happen? Does the punishment fit the crime? It's interesting!
Yeah, I just wonder if agents really ever get booted in a self-policing industry with such a bad reputation. My guess is that buyers don't complain because, like us, they have already moved on to purchase another home and don't learn about the sale price until weeks after the transaction.
Yeah, I just wonder if agents really ever get booted in a self-policing industry with such a bad reputation. My guess is that buyers don't complain because, like us, they have already moved on to purchase another home and don't learn about the sale price until weeks after the transaction.
People get fined, sanctioned, and even booted all the time in this industry. Another agent in my office just paid a $3K+ fine to MLS because she extended her listing through an email approval instead of having her seller sign the appropriate form. $3K+ sounds like an awfully stiff fine for essentially a paperwork issue.
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