Acreage on Property is Half What listing says! (2013, properties, legal)
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
you need to concentrate on selling your home first, just as you've stated. then, what the Bank can deed to you is what is in the record. No old plat map, no nothing - just whatever THEIR deed says. Now, once your home sells and you want this property, then you can attempt to either a) write a low offer, and include the research you've done or b) write an offer that's simply "$X, unless a current survey of the acreage is deemed to be less than 30 acres, in which case $Y"
Hey.. I believe everything you are saying but I have a question... HOW do you do a survey if all the information you have to go on is old & outdated?? I mean how do you know how to measure it???? And clearly by the photo below of the adjacent tract in question, that owner thinks they own all of that land because they had it cleared! Much of that land that was cleared belongs to the tract we are looking at if the aerial shot is more accurate.
The surveyor would need to use the legal description of what the Seller owns. Since a Deed is the instrument used to convey an interest in real estate, all things point back to the Deed.
EDIT - In your case, you need to follow back to the source of the Deed description.
Last edited by jackmichigan; 11-20-2015 at 10:41 AM..
You use the deeds to measure the property. The deed has the legal description of the property along with dimensions, landmarks, markets, etc.
All these computer maps use survey data to show the lines on the online maps. If a property was divided, a new deed was created but no survey was completed, the online maps will not show it.
You use the deeds to measure the property. The deed has the legal description of the property along with dimensions, landmarks, markets, etc.
All these computer maps use survey data to show the lines on the online maps. If a property was divided, a new deed was created but no survey was completed, the online maps will not show it.
I went and pulled ALL deeds yesterday. There is NOTHING on any of the deeds that have measurements or calls or anything like that. All it says is something like this "All that tract, lot and parcel of land, with any and all improvements thereon, situate, lying and being in the 425th district... containing 39.8 acres.. yada yada yada."
WHERE in the world do I find these said measurements & descriptions?
The surveyor would need to use the legal description of what the Seller owns. Since a Deed is the instrument used to convey an interest in real estate, all things point back to the Deed.
EDIT - In your case, you need to follow back to the source of the Deed description.
I understand but the deeds do not have any measurements, descriptions, calls or any of the like on them. So HOW does a surveyor measure a parcel when he has nothing to go by?????
I understand but the deeds do not have any measurements, descriptions, calls or any of the like on them. So HOW does a surveyor measure a parcel when he has nothing to go by?????
I have known them to then need to go to the nearest point of what is known (another property, landmark, etc) which can be some distance away. Hope it doesn't come to that.
I understand but the deeds do not have any measurements, descriptions, calls or any of the like on them. So HOW does a surveyor measure a parcel when he has nothing to go by?????
I have a hard time believing the recorded deed doesn't have distances and dimensions from some given point for the property lines. Years ago (before modern GPS) I worked for a surveyor and we could always run perimeter lines around a property. The problem sometimes came in tying at least two points with external property points so the property didn't 'swing' around a single point. I can see a sales contract being in the terms you mention but it would have a reference to an older deed. The surveyor then needs to pull out the older deeds and pull information from there. I remember one parcel we had to go all the way back to one of the original english land grants to get the property to 'close' (in a surveying sense not a sales sense)
When the properties were divided, it was done by certain measurements, and then recorded as a plat and legal description defining each one. You have to go back to when the legal descriptions were determined as a plot of land.
This is why, you need to bring a surveyor aboard. They will know where to get the correct information, and stating at a point that may be half a mile or more from this property, and mark the points involved.
Once you can get the plat and old survey, then and only then can you determine what property is involved. You may find that the actual property is more or less than shown on those two pictures you posted.
You are looking for an easy way to solve the problem of determining what land is involved. There is not one. Often if the surveys were done years ago, using two different starting points they may differ.
True story. I knew some of the engineers from Hewitt Packard that developed the first electronic survey equipment.
They took it down to Boulder to where the state had land that a new surveyor had to survey, and often times they would not come up with the right answer, and could not be licensed. With the electronic equipment, they told the state people they were wrong, and those surveys they were making were not accurate. The state said they were wrong. The HP boys went back to the plant, and rechecked everything. They went back down and did it again, and found the exact same thing as the first time. They paid to bring in one of the best surveyors in the state, who checked everything and found that the HP people were exactly on the money. Boy did that cause a shake up. The state had to bring in the people that had failed their test and had the same information as the HP people and issue them their licenses. And the ones that had passed, had to be retested. One of the lead engineers on this project was one of my neighbors and he told me all about it.
A lot of problems have been found the past few years with old surveys using the non electronic equipment. This is a major reason that property like this has to be surveyed when it is sold. My wife and I bought a mountain resort home in Colorado for our permanent home at the time. When it was surveyed, the neighbor to the north was shocked, when he found we owned up to about 20 feet from his home, and he lost about 200 feet he thought he owned on our property.
You have posted two pictures of the property. One is the red lined one you measured. The other is the plat plan of what it is like on paper. This right there is the proof, that you have no idea of what property is involved. Bring in a surveyor, who will know how to find the legal description of that land, any changes that were made in it due to other deeds, etc. Then using the proper description of the land which he will acquire, who will set the boundary corners. Then and only then will anyone know what is involved with the property. Never buy a property such as that one, without a survey. Over the years I saw a lot of rural property that had boundary problems. You cannot rely on what the county is using for assessment purposes, as have not surveyed the property. You cannot rely on what the agents, and the owner tell you, as they have no real way of knowing what is right and what is wrong.
I will bet that the agents are relying on the old plot map you included in the one picture, as the acreage is the same as they claim. Probably the same for assessed value. The mapping marked in red is so far from the other plats, it is proof that no one knows the truth at this time.
You have two choices, one is getting a survey paid by you or the sellers. The other is to just walk away from this mess.
If I was writing the contract to buy, I would not list the acreage, but use the legal description. Stating I am purchasing property (legal description) and address. The price is $x dollars for improvements and $xx per acre. Seller to have licensed surveyor survey the land, and determine final boundaries of property. If they insist you pay for the survey, that is something you can expect. And is fair as the lenders are going to demand a survey today. Put something out there that they can object to such as seller to pay for survey, and they most often will not look hard at the price per acre clause. This is known as a front porch clause, as taught by William Nickerson 50 years ago. He bought a lot of houses for rentals, and always included the owner would build him a front porch. They would refuse to build the new front porch, and in doing so would not look as hard at the other terms. He was not interested in the front porch, but wanted to put something they would turn down, and not look so hard at the other terms.
If you find there is a big difference in size as your really expect to happen, then you can insist the price be lowered to the correct acreage. A court would grant it if it went that far. A seller would be foolish to stand up in court and try to justify paying for a lot more property than he had to sell, and the contract would call for purchase of what you actually get, based on the value of acreage in the area. If asked why you want to make the contact this way, say for tax purposes as I make changes on the improvements. That is the truth, and you can say that in court. You say you want to only pay for what you get, and the seller tried to sell you something he cannot produce as he does not own what he was offering for sale.
This way you get the property you want, paying for only the property you actually get, as country property is really valued by the land, plus improvements. Take away some of the land and the value drops.
I went and pulled ALL deeds yesterday. There is NOTHING on any of the deeds that have measurements or calls or anything like that. WHERE in the world do I find these said measurements & descriptions?
When you cant figure something out yourself, call a professional surveyor. Its on a deed somewhere.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
