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Raising my hand over here....just bought our house 2.5 years ago it was a flip. And a cheap one. But a lot of issues arent going to be super apparent at first sight.
1) our HVAC was installed new (new units and duct as it had radiators and window units before), the units are undersized. The duct is poorly installed and inneficient. Our office which has 9 windows like a sun room has only 1 air outlet and it was installed in a crawl space area not our conditioned basement and uninsulated.
2) They installed new electric because there was old knob and tube. They put new outlets but left the old non functioning ones instead of reusing the existing locations.
3) they "painted" the hardwood floors instead of staining them. Looked good at the walk through but looked terrible once we started actually walking on them. We had them sanded and stained.
4) we have a center hall colonial so its living room through a doorway to the left and dining room to the right and stairs in front. The entryway area had tile. It slopped down on the sides, we thought the house had settled. It was actually 4 inches of thin set under it for no apparent reason AND the tiles werent even attached to it. When we removed them, after we got the 1st one out, the rest could just be picked up and removed, intact. So much so, that we reused the tile to tile the laundry room floor in the basement.
5)there was a roof leak in the office which we noticed at the walk through and asked to have it repaired before closing. They said yes. A year later part of the ceiling fell down and leaked because they didnt fix it, they just repaired the evidence and we didnt know until the sheetrock was so saturated that it fell down.
6)water poured through the kitchen ceiling around a light fixture because the upstairs bathroom drain wasnt properly sealed.
The most obvious way for us to tell, had we known to study it, is the tile installation. In every room with tile its poorly installed. The grout is missing, the tiles are loose. In the bathrooms the accent stripe isnt even with the tile, it either sticks out or sinks in. In the kitchen, the backsplash tile is uneven and has dried grout and morter everywhere.
Look closely at everything.
Did you not have the house inspected? did you not request a receipt for the ceiling leak (which would have shown drywall costs but no plumbing costs)?
Did you not have the house inspected? did you not request a receipt for the ceiling leak (which would have shown drywall costs but no plumbing costs)?
Many house flippers wouldn't have a receipt for drywall work or plumbing work- those are both things that many flippers DIY. The people I know who do that as their main job are basically glorified DIYers, doing much of the work themselves. Which explains why the drains leak, the tiles aren't well attached, etc
Did you not have the house inspected? did you not request a receipt for the ceiling leak (which would have shown drywall costs but no plumbing costs)?
Of course I had the house inspected. And requested many repairs to the things that came up. The other poster is correct, an LLC company that does house flips do most of their own work. And it was a leaky roof so there was no plumbing work. Most of the things that came up were things that we didnt know about until it was too late. Undersized HVAC isnt something we knew until it wasnt cooling and heating effectively and efficiently. The tiles looked fine it was after some slight wear that it showed. Inspectors care nothing for poorly laid tile or poorly finished floors.
Quote:
Originally Posted by NYCresident2014
Many house flippers wouldn't have a receipt for drywall work or plumbing work- those are both things that many flippers DIY. The people I know who do that as their main job are basically glorified DIYers, doing much of the work themselves. Which explains why the drains leak, the tiles aren't well attached, etc
Maybe don't look for flips, be open to paying a fair price to an owner sold house, boomers that kept their houses up but may not be updated. Like buying an older used car from an owner who cared for it, not a dealer trying to turn cars around fast.
I remember a few houses that had to be condemned or foreclosed- they were kept up by original owners then inherited by idiot kids and ruined or turned into rentals and then ruined. One of them was saved by a flipper, but they did extensive work to save that house.
Often if you can find a house owned by older people who have lived there a long time, they take pride in their homes even if stuff is dated, and they have maintained them well. Just my observation over the years. My in-laws were like that- meticulous and they actually did a lot of improvements with quality work and materials. Five years after they sold it, it looks a little less maintained from the outside.
Back to the question, what I have seen a lot of, in cheap flips, is poor finish work. The cabinets are new, but they don't have the right trim. The counters are new, but they don't have the right edging. The tile work in the bathroom or backsplash is new, but it doesn't have the right bull-nosed tiles on the edges.
I don't mind builder grade fixtures on flips for entry level homes. That's fine, and not spending a lot for high-end fixtures helps keep those homes affordable for those entry level buyers. But it's the details that usually separate professionals from the newbie DIYers.
A home inspection should find that kind of stuff even if the buyer doesn't notice it. I don't know how flippers get away with it.
I don't care about cheap fixtures I can change but covering up structural issues is a big no no.
My former strategy when I sold some older houses was fix everything, even the tiniest things, that were broken, stained, cracked loose, whatever- make sure it's done right, paint neutral but leave some of the quality vintage features intact. Clean and shine it up so it sparkles. I had an old interior door with a plain glass pane that was kind of ugly but a heavy, solid door. I changed the knob and put a stained glass insert in it and everyone loved that old door as a feature. Some people paint everything that is brown, white but I couldn't do that.
What I won't do is a full renovation, knowing I will not get that money back. The buyers get a break on price but not a Low ball one, they get a well maintained house and the option to renovate later but they get a fully functioning turn key home if they aren't a nitpicky HDTV fool.
You would think and hope so, but it’s not always the case? I had a lousy inspector on our cabin where I had to point things out to make sure they got into the report.
Flippers get away with it for many reasons. One, if the buyers had a lousy inspector like I did who dismissed everything minor and/or flat out missed things they’ve never know? Many buyer’s agents want a sale too so they can move on so they often dismiss things as well to their clients. And finally buyers fall in love with a place and will overlook a lot regardless of what someone may tell them?
I wasn't looking for a unicorn. I found many suitable properties. My loan officer (who also was a GC) confirmed that I could get financing on them. My offers were competitive with the selling price.
Older generations talk about first time homebuyers and comment that we don't want to build sweat equity. No, it's just that we don't get the opportunity.
Well I guess those offers weren’t competitive enough? If a house can qualify for financing most sellers won’t mind waiting the extra 3 weeks to get a higher price vs going all cash and closing right away?
We looked at mostly houses that needed updating (and a few true fixers) and we had a lot of our offers accepted before finally deciding on the one we bought. We were conventional with 5% down.
I followed every house we put an offer on and I don’t recall any closing right away? Maybe there were some, but most as I recall closed after 30 days (sometimes longer) and usually for around our offer, or substantially more in the case of those we weren’t accepted on. Except for one we really wanted. Had the realtor countered to us we would’ve gave them more than what it sold for. That one stung for awhile.
Good luck to you, hopefully when more houses hit the market you’ll find yours.
Inattention to detail is a sign. Things like holes that aren't/can't be covered by an outlet plate or light fixture..
But, where do you draw the line? Do you pass on a house because of a misaligned outlet cover plate? That sounds like a endless road to nowhere.
Quote:
Originally Posted by LO28SWM
1) our HVAC was installed new (new units and duct as it had radiators and window units before), the units are undersized. The duct is poorly installed and inneficient. Our office which has 9 windows like a sun room has only 1 air outlet and it was installed in a crawl space area not our conditioned basement and uninsulated.
5)there was a roof leak in the office which we noticed at the walk through and asked to have it repaired before closing. They said yes. A year later part of the ceiling fell down and leaked because they didnt fix it, they just repaired the evidence and we didnt know until the sheetrock was so saturated that it fell down.
How can you tell the HVAC duct was poorly installed and inefficient? Laymen buyers like myself are not qualified to inspect HVAC systems. They can barely spell HVAC.
Leak. Lesson there is to be highly suspicious of any repairs. How could you have known its was a cheap patch job? Ask for receipts? You can't exactly open up the ceiling to inspect the work. Ask them for photo evidence of any repairs made?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Diana Holbrook
Back to the question, what I have seen a lot of, in cheap flips, is poor finish work. The cabinets are new, but they don't have the right trim. The counters are new, but they don't have the right edging. The tile work in the bathroom or backsplash is new, but it doesn't have the right bull-nosed tiles on the edges.
.
Can you post a picture of "wrong trim"? Wrong edging? Bull nosed tiles?
Are you a professional contactor?
Can you post a picture of "wrong trim"? Wrong edging? Bull nosed tiles?
Are you a professional contactor?
No, I'm not a contractor.
Tiles and counter top materials often have an unfinished side edge to them, and you have to get special tiles or strips to cover these edges so they look finished. Sometimes with bad or unskilled DIY jobs, these details are just not done right, and you'll know it when you see it.
Here's just one example below from one of our client's inspection report. There wasn't a LOT wrong with this house... but it had a few things like this attached, that had been done on the cheap.
Backwards doorknobs and deadbolts. Interior grade doors on exits. Carpet tiles.
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