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Just wondering are women more concerned in terms of men, with a man's money or official job title. Although, the two usually go together ( For instance, a neurosurgeon will always be richer than a Mcdonald's worker) ocasionally we see heavily indebted high status professionals with average income and people who are blue collar (or worse) with affluent incomes and in rare cases huge wealth. From what I have heard in New York City, it is better for a man to be any kind of lawyer or corporate person when trying to pick up a woman than to be a wealthy house flipper or union contractor. Also, on the show Millonaire Matchmaker the host judges potential dates for the Millionaire's based on official occupational title without listening for further details. Here is what I know of:
In My City Agency, I work with lawyers. Their salary is about 50,000 to 70,000 a year ( depending on when they came in and seniority) with the head earning 100,000 a year. However, many of them are in debt six figures or more thanks to huge law school loans. Yet, to the average person they are "lawyers". I also know of a broke lawyer making only 30,000 a year with his small practice that has 200,000 in debt from NYU.
However, on the flip side, I know of people who when you ask them what they do , it sounds unimpressive, but they actually are very wealthy:
A. A inheritance guy who works at an average job in my agency (Net Worth is at least 5-7 million) since he has nothing to do in life. Sad
B. My father's blue collar union coworker who made millions on the side with stocks and real estate. He sold out pre-crash and kept the job till he was retirement age( He wanted the diversification of a government pension which makes sense, actually)
C. Some blue collar guy who was portrayed in a millionaire next door book who made 3 million at a side venture while keeping his full time blue collar job.
D. My cousin who was lucky enough to get shares in a very very very famous startup from the start, sold out and now lives off some income from diversified business investments( Income is at least 40,000 a month!!!). However, when you ask him what he does as a stranger he always will say "I'm not currently working" Well, why should he with that level of investment income.
At a less extreme level, I know of hundreds of plumbers, contractors, overtime Garbage and utility men who make at least six figures.
My questions are:
A. In general would women prefer a average income earning high debt professional or an affluent or even wealthy blue collar (or worse) guy?
2. Will women make an instant snap judgment based on official title or change their minds after hearing the real story?
3. In Case B above, why would it matter to anyone that the man is officially a blue collar worker when he is wealthier than most professionals and the fact that he made that much investing on his own shows that he has tremendous independence and intelligence?
4. In case D, after my cousin said "I'm not currently working", would a woman wait a minute to listen to the real story or explanation and how would they view him then.
In todays crazy economy, current official job title is not always the best indicator of financial status or even long term potential. For instance, a guy who is a highly specialized critical care surgery nurse may have a financial picture almost as good or perhaps better than a average HMO doctor.
You know seriously....if some men put more time and effort into just being themselves instead of trying to fit women into some magazine article methodology....they MIGHT have more success with women!
A. In general would women prefer a average income earning high debt professional or an affluent or even wealthy blue collar (or worse) guy?
"or worse"?? That kinda sounds like a slam to blue collar guys.
In any case, you're asking. in effect, if we would prefer a lawyer who is in debt, or a very financially successful plumber?
I can't answer that without knowing their character. For argument's sake let's say they are both great guys. I'd take the plumber who abviously makes better decisions.. I'd chose stability/good judgement over status. The lawyer in your scenario obviously is not making as good of decisions as the plumber.
Sometimes all the degrees in the world won't "buy you smart".
2. Will women make an instant snap judgment based on official title or change their minds after hearing the real story?
I might make an initial assumption in my head but If I heard more to the story than yeah, I'd most definately change my view. That's why it's important to get to know the person, not just their status.
3. In Case B above, why would it matter to anyone that the man is officially a blue collar worker when he is wealthier than most professionals and the fact that he made that much investing on his own shows that he has tremendous independence and intelligence?
It wouldn't. I couldn't care less. If the guy is a good guy and responsible, I wouldn't care. Blue collar, white collar, purple collar!
4. In case D, after my cousin said "I'm not currently working", would a woman wait a minute to listen to the real story or explanation and how would they view him then.
If he was interesting, yes. If he was a jerk or baffoon then no.
3. In Case B above, why would it matter to anyone that the man is officially a blue collar worker when he is wealthier than most professionals and the fact that he made that much investing on his own shows that he has tremendous independence and intelligence?
Well, most people choose those who would choose them. With the blue collar guys, there's much more of a culture of "Buy your trucks and rent your women." And those men pick gorgeous bimbos, and they use them and dump them at will, until one of them has a child and at manages to at least trap him into child support payments if not marriage. Now, back in the '50s or so, there might have been a large proportion of blue collar men who make made great husbands and fathers. Starting in the '60s, that proportion started dropping because the bright children of the bright working class went on to college and other professions. The bottom half or fourth of the high school class tended to go into blue collar professions, along with the nonconformist "rebels without a cause." The average earnings of blue collar and factory workers fell (automotive and a few other exceptions noted) while that of college grads rose. Thus the problems I think of right off the bat whenever someone offers to fix me up with a blue collar guy:
1. He sleeps around.
2. He can't make a relationship work with any woman, because he is contemptuous and abusive toward them. And the women that are available to him are usually not the brightest and most accomplished and of impeccable morals, either. All of that is just a quagmire I definitely avoid, because it's not my lifestyle and not my mess.
3. He'll have tattoos everywhere, and a Harley, and will chain smoke and drink like a fish. This is not the type of man that I am attracted to.
4. Job skills and proficiency: Whatever he does for a living, he'd better love it and be d****d good at it. But many blue collar guys hate their jobs, and their jobs tend to pay $10 to $15 per hour and not have much stability.
5. Health: If I were betting sight unseen on whether the attorney or the blue collar guy has a healthier lifestyle and a better chance of living a long life without becoming disabled, I'd bet on the attorney.
6. Shared interests: I'd wager that the attorney and I would be more compatible, since we both have college degrees and white collar professions in common. The better educated men are capable of picking up a book and teaching themselves some new hobby or skills, or they can learn the gist of a technology, say to try a case or to do legal work for businesses. I am not saying a blue collar guy can't do that, but I think it would be more unlikely for a blue collar guy to have much interest in white collar professions and the different lifestyle and social circle that goes with them. If he preferred white collar, he'd be white collar, right?
7. Worthless children, with a host of illegitimate kids and too little income, always back here begging Dad for more money. I know Yuppies can produce some bad kids, too, but today's blue collar families are swirling down the drain. Never have babies if you don't have the money, Honey.
Now, what counts with me in choosing a man is does he want to settle down or marry, or is he just looking for s*x, because I have no time for players and jerks. And how much intellect does he possess, and can he keep up with mine. First, I want somebody that I can talk to about things that interest both of us. Second, I don't want to be always hiding my intelligence to cater to a man who is not as bright and as swift on the uptake.
So, it's not all about the money. It's also values, interests, and lifestyle choices.
You know seriously....if some men put more time and effort into just being themselves instead of trying to fit women into some magazine article methodology....they MIGHT have more success with women!
Well, most people choose those who would choose them. ...
...
So, it's not all about the money. It's also values, interests, and lifestyle choices.
Good grief!
You sure have a lot of assumptions based on shaky foundations. I suspect the worst being your belief of being brighter than those "trashy Blue Collar" guys.
Quote:
I'd wager that the attorney and I would be more compatible, since we both have college degrees and white collar professions in common. The better educated men are capable of picking up a book and teaching themselves some new hobby or skills
I'll take that wager. Most "professionals" are specialists, good at what they are trained in and nothing else. I would not say all lawyers are dumber than a fence post, but I have met more than one that was.
A. In general would women prefer a average income earning high debt professional or an affluent or even wealthy blue collar (or worse) guy?
I can't speak for all women, which is important for you to realize. Women are roughly 50% of the population, so there is going to be a great variety of feelings and views depending on what women you talk to.
Personally, I like a guy who is responsible and shows some ambition, which is more of an attitude than an income or title.
I admit, I tend to admire those who pursue what they love, especially if it is something I value also. Being a bit bookish, a blue collar guy may not stimulate my mind in the way I desire. I just broke up with an electrician, and while he was quite intelligent, we had different ways of looking at the world. We even had very different reasoning behind our shared interests. Honestly, I see most women I know preferring his style (ie. fun, action-oriented). I guess I just like people a bit more "cerebral".
2. Will women make an instant snap judgment based on official title or change their minds after hearing the real story?
I absolutely do not make "snap judgments" about much of anything. A person's job title means little to me. Maybe all women do not approach people in such a visceral way though. I suspect even I am more practical than that, but evaluating factual info about a person is something I prefer to do in the context of the overall vibe I get from them. On paper, people can seem better/worse than they really are.
3. In Case B above, why would it matter to anyone that the man is officially a blue collar worker when he is wealthier than most professionals and the fact that he made that much investing on his own shows that he has tremendous independence and intelligence?
I think evidence of independence and intelligence trumps a title, most definitely. I can't say I'd compare individuals based on this criteria though.
4. In case D, after my cousin said "I'm not currently working", would a woman wait a minute to listen to the real story or explanation and how would they view him then.
I'm not working right now either, and I'd hate for someone to judge me based on that. Again, here, attitude is what I'd note. Is this guy content to be a lazy mooch & live in mom's basement? Or is he looking for work with the goal to be independent in the semi near future?
In the case of your cousin, it may be good for him to explain what he is doing, not in terms of work, but his LIFE. What DOES he do all day? There are tons of interesting things to pursue in life outside of a "career"; there are noble, selfless things also. If he's independently wealthy & has that luxury, then maybe he should display his passion for those interests. If he (or these other guys) doesn't have any, then maybe that is the problem. I know I don't want a boring dud, no matter how rich. Poor, interesting guys FTW.
A. In general would women prefer a average income earning high debt professional or an affluent or even wealthy blue collar (or worse) guy?
What a ridonkulous question. There is nothing "or worse" about blue-collar employment.
2. Will women make an instant snap judgment based on official title or change their minds after hearing the real story?
All people, regardless of gender, will form an instant impression. That is human nature. But a "judgement"...eh...I don't see much to judge - but that is just me.
3. In Case B above, why would it matter to anyone that the man is officially a blue collar worker when he is wealthier than most professionals and the fact that he made that much investing on his own shows that he has tremendous independence and intelligence?
It would matter to some, it wouldn't matter to others. What's your point? That people judge? There's a hot newsflash, eh?
4. In case D, after my cousin said "I'm not currently working", would a woman wait a minute to listen to the real story or explanation and how would they view him then.
Again, if the woman found the dude appealing, she'd wait. Seriously...you do know that everyone is different....right? Yeesh.
Sometimes these types of posts are so silly, I don't even know why I bother to respond.
One reason why I am asking is that I am trying to do some career planning. My cousin who has an abundance of time on his hands, is willing to spend hours on the phone talking about how to score big in investments. Whether I will be able to do what he did is questionable, since rather then great performance over many deals he happened to get into a single famous company in Seattle at the very start and held on.
However, my father's friend is more of a possible role model. He made his millions over the course of many real estate deals and many stock investments. He is worth possibly as much as ten million. Since he worked with my dad side by side since Reagan was in office he is like blood to my father and I am like his nephew. Although he sold out and is now in Florida, he is still doing a few deals here and there in Florida. He offered to let me come watch him do a few deals as a learning experience and maybe if he feels that I have the right personality for real estate to help me make my first purchase. Sounds like a very very very good opportunity. If it works out, I could have within ten years maybe a couple hundred grand or more. One advantage is that I can do this on vacation while still holding on to my secure government job,so that if I find that real estate is not for me, not much lost.
On the other hand, I have the academic ability and work experience to possibly get into Law School. My current job with the city agency involves doing research and interviewing people on behalf of lawyers. I have an inside track to get hired at this agency if I go to law school and get a J.D.
However, if I take into account the debt for law school, the hours worked by the lawyers I know, and their level of job satisfaction, law school just does not make sense. Plus, if my connections don't get me in as a lawyer, I could be one of the millions of unemployed lawyers.
In this country, we usually define a person's occupational status by their day job, not their sideline ( even though there genuinely are a few people with ordinary jobs that have gotten very very rich with sideline investments/ ventures).
I know that sounded like a career forum post, but here how this is relationship related.:
If I take out a loan to go to law school and go back to my agency as a lawyer. I will have tons of stress, and actually be worse off financially than I am now since if you take into account the cost of Law School loans, working for my agency as a lawyer does not make economic sense. However, when a woman asks me what do you do, I will be able to simply state "I am a lawyer" and get approval.
However, if I follow in my father's friends footsteps, ( hold down secure job with health insurance and pension, build wealth on the side) I will have in ten years maybe several hundred thousand. However, when meeting a woman it will get very awkward when she asks me what I do for a living and I state "Office job at Department of so and so so, however that is not my real career. I just want a steady job for income so that I can build my real esate business up. My 400,000 net worth in real estate is a better reflection of my financial prospects and ambition." Sounds like a long winded explanation and defensive.
I have seen dating shows like Next, the Millionaire Matchmaker and a person is simply asked to state their occupation and either considered or dinged based on their title. Of course in real life there can be 200 reasons why a person's official job title is not the best reflection of who they are. In a few cases, it is not even the best reflection of their level of income/wealth.
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