What percentage of women would... (Christian, love, child, attractive)

[seeniorita]

Originally Posted by Trimac20

a) ask a man out on a proper date? I've done it.

b) propose to their fiance? I'm not going to ask a man to marry me.

c) be comfortable earning more than their SO? I don't have a problem with it (when it happens )

d) be happy to now and then do the 'male' jobs around the house like fixing stuff if they need doing (i.e. replacing a lightbulb without calling for her man) Good grief, a light bulb. Try driving tractors, cropping tobacco, mowing grass, painting, repairing the deck, porch, etc.

I draw the line at snakes and large bugs/spiders!


I have no idea myself so I'm wondering what your personal estimates are.

[fleetiebelle]

a) ask a man out on a proper date? I've done it, no big whoop.

b) propose to their fiance? I'm not a big fan of the proposal-as-theater thing, but I'd have no problem discussing the future/marriage/commitment with an SO

c) be comfortable earning more than their SO? Why would I be uncomfortable?

d) be happy to now and then do the 'male' jobs around the house like fixing stuff if they need doing (i.e. replacing a lightbulb without calling for her man) Didn't realize changing a light bulb was man's work. I'm single and I own a house, so I do a lot of stuff to maintain it, from painting to lawn-mowing. For the stuff I can't do I pull out the yellow pages and my checkbook.

[onihC]

Originally Posted by ChessieMom

I didn't see where anyone said that. I think few women would like to reverse roles here. If a guy isn't proposing, either he isn't sold on marriage, or he isn't sold on it with you

Some women have said they are all into following traditions which involves gender roles (a man’s job, a manly thing, etc.). It’s expecting a gender, in this case a man, to do something just because of his gender. I find it as bad as someone expecting women to stay in the kitchen just because she’s a woman. Somehow, for one reason or the other, a woman in the kitchen is no degrading and insulting to many, but expecting/demanding a man to take care of a woman is not.

Are you stuck in the June Cleaver era? In a home where both the husband and work outside the home, you'll find that most share the housework, to some degree.

I am not stuck in that era but it seems many women like the traditional roles that benefit them. There were a couple of responses here where women say they are traditionalists so that is why I asked how they see themselves in the kitchen or any other “traditional role”. That is for married couples. For a guy and a girl who are going out, I don’t see anything wrong with having a girl pay for my dinners, entertainment, etc. just like guys are expected/demanded to do. Not after a couple of months, not after I am tested, not after I prove that I am a nice guy, etc. But from day #1. Why wait to be nice to a guy instead of being nice and courteous right from the start?

b) propose to their fiance?
Propose is such a formal term. In long term relationships I find it more likely that both of us are discussing it together, sometimes I bring it up, sometimes he does, but no, I'd never get down on one knee in a formal way. But bringing it up in a "what if" kind of way for discussion, when we are obviously committed and on the same page seems reasonable

MissyRivers,
That’s how I would rather do it. Both arrange to have dinner in a place we both like or prepare something outdoors together. Have a nice long talk about how far we have happily gone and then about how we feel about taking that step of sharing our lives together. Agreeing about it (hopefully) and make the decision together. I find the whole thing about a guy going down on his knees to beg for marriage and buying her a ring that cost him at least 3 months of his salary to be a bit sexist. Rather use all that amount of money for home improvement, another car if we needed one, a couple of vacation trips, etc. instead of having all that money just wrapped around her finger doing nothing.

Originally Posted by Neemy

…but I will expect my SO to do his share

Hello Neemy,
That’s right. See, I would also expect my significant other to do her share so why not take me out for dinners, entertainment, etc. and foot the bill as well? I want to feel romanced, taken care of, valued, etc. as well. So I am all for the relationship revolving around both of us right from the start.

There are a few old-fashioned things I hold on to. Chivalry isn't dead, and if a guy wants to open a door for me, I smile and say thank you. And I open doors for guys, too.

I don’t see what would hold a woman to open my door, bring me a chair, hold an umbrella, etc. I don’t see what holds a gender from being courteous, well-mannered, caring, protecting, etc. There shouldn’t be a gender for those nice gestures.

Am I contradicting myself with this post? You betcha. All over the place!

Heheheh! That is why when women say they are all into traditions I ask if they really mean it .

[ChessieMom]

Originally Posted by onihC

Some women have said they are all into following traditions which involves gender roles (a man’s job, a manly thing, etc.). It’s expecting a gender, in this case a man, to do something just because of his gender. I find it as bad as someone expecting women to stay in the kitchen just because she’s a woman. Somehow, for one reason or the other, a woman in the kitchen is no degrading and insulting to many, but expecting/demanding a man to take care of a woman is not.

Maybe you do, but I don't believe the majority of people (men and women) would agree with you. Proposing marriage is a traditional thing in and of itself. Most men want to be financially secure and have their own mental house in order before considering marriage. Like it or not, the men will generally be the ones that provide most of the financial support, and even more so if children are planned. (Obviously this is not always the case - I was the main breadwinner myself...but it still did not change the fact that I am the one that had the child and stayed home to care for him.) Most of us are happy with the man doing the proposing. It's fine that you aren't.

Originally Posted by onihC

I am not stuck in that era but it seems many women like the traditional roles that benefit them. There were a couple of responses here where women say they are traditionalists so that is why I asked how they see themselves in the kitchen or any other “traditional role”. That is for married couples. For a guy and a girl who are going out, I don’t see anything wrong with having a girl pay for my dinners, entertainment, etc. just like guys are expected/demanded to do. Not after a couple of months, not after I am tested, not after I prove that I am a nice guy, etc. But from day #1. Why wait to be nice to a guy instead of being nice and courteous right from the start?

If you ask a gal out, then you are inviting her to spend an evening with you as her host. That is why you pay. If she asks, then it would make sense for her to pay. I see nothing wrong with this. If you don't want to pay, then stop asking out women.

Originally Posted by onihC

I don’t see what would hold a woman to open my door, bring me a chair, hold an umbrella, etc. I don’t see what holds a gender from being courteous, well-mannered, caring, protecting, etc. There shouldn’t be a gender for those nice gestures.

Physically, the man is generally the stronger one. And that is where the "protection/chivalry" thing comes in...do you really not get that?? I don't think there are gender roles in nice gestures - I don't think anyone has said that but you.

[onihC]

Originally Posted by ChessieMom

Proposing marriage is a traditional thing in and of itself

Many career women can totally see it as something insulting for someone to dare himself say that a woman should do housechores and stay in the kitchen but the same women would be all for having men propose marriage, buy them their ring, go down on his knees, etc. So I ask again, which traditions do we keep and which ones go?

Most men want to be financially secure and have their own mental house in order before considering marriage

Exactly. Men want to be ready financially, have a career/degree, have a house, etc. have it all ready to provide and take care of their woman. Not sure about women.

Most of us are happy with the man doing the proposing. It's fine that you aren't

Of course women will be happy with the man doing the proposal and all the other “traditional manly” things. Can’t imagine women going against it. There may be an exception out there of course.

If she asks, then it would make sense for her to pay

That is IF she asks which we all know its not as common as men asking women out. Still, from the Asian women that have asked me out I don’t use that as an excuse to just sit back and enjoy the freebies. I do my part. And if she just totally doesn’t accept my contribution I take care of the next one. I don’t wait months or “later on”, I make sure I do it on the next one.

Physically, the man is generally the stronger one. And that is where the "protection/chivalry" thing comes in...do you really not get that? I don't think there are gender roles in nice gestures - I don't think anyone has said that but you.

If women are strong enough to carry big shopping bags, go to the gym, dance all night long, etc. I don’t see how opening a door for a man, bringing him a chair, holding an umbrella, etc. could be so difficult. I can understand trying to carry something beyond their capabilities but as for mutual chivalry, don’t see what holds women from reciprocating those gestures. Women are seen as the gender that is more suited for being nurturing. Wouldn’t it be pretty bad for men to say “Here, the baby can’t stop crying” just because it is assumed women are more nurturing? I mean, it’s a gender difference, right? How about having men do their part and just try to calm the crying baby instead of just taking the easy comfy way out while they play the man gender-card?

[ChessieMom]

Originally Posted by onihC

Many career women can totally see it as something insulting for someone to dare himself say that a woman should do housechores and stay in the kitchen but the same women would be all for having men propose marriage, buy them their ring, go down on his knees, etc. So I ask again, which traditions do we keep and which ones go?

You've missed my point. A man's proposing, is in fact something that works...for most people. It doesn't even compare with the ":women in the kitchen" thing. Most women do work now...the economy pretty much requires it. And for what it's worth, many men do enjoy cooking, so that puts them in the kitchen. Couples are going to do whatever works for them - and it will be different all across the board. You're trying to make a comparison between things that are not comparable.

Originally Posted by onihC

If women are strong enough to carry big shopping bags, go to the gym, dance all night long, etc. I don’t see how opening a door for a man, bringing him a chair, holding an umbrella, etc. could be so difficult. I can understand trying to carry something beyond their capabilities but as for mutual chivalry, don’t see what holds women from reciprocating those gestures. Women are seen as the gender that is more suited for being nurturing. Wouldn’t it be pretty bad for men to say “Here, the baby can’t stop crying” just because it is assumed women are more nurturing? I mean, it’s a gender difference, right? How about having men do their part and just try to calm the crying baby instead of just taking the easy comfy way out while they play the man gender-card?

No one has said that a women cannot hold a door. Good Lord. I hold a door for men all the freakin' time...as do most women. What, are you blind?? But pulling out a chair is simply a matter of chivalry. If I'm pulling out a chair for a man, then he's either elderly or sick. If you really fail to understand that, then I can't help you. Women ARE more nurturing. And yep...usually the mom can get the crying baby to sleep better. And yep, often this is what happens. You ever hear of "if it ain't broke, don't fix it"? I totally get that you don't like the traditional burdens that society places on you for being a man. That comes across loud and clear. Sorry dude. Get a sex change operation and be happier.

[hopedelivers]

Originally Posted by Trimac20

a) ask a man out on a proper date?

b) propose to their fiance?

c) be comfortable earning more than their SO?

d) be happy to now and then do the 'male' jobs around the house like fixing stuff if they need doing (i.e. replacing a lightbulb without calling for her man)


I have no idea myself so I'm wondering what your personal estimates are.

a. I have no asked a man out on a proper date.

b. I have not proposed to my fiance.

c. I have made more than my SO and felt very comfortable with it!

d. I have done 'male jobs' most of my life, much more than changing a lightbulb.

[*VaNiLlaGoRrilLa*]

Originally Posted by onihC

For the women that said they would never propose to a man because that is a man’s job, gotta follow traditions, etc. If you are all into being traditional I suppose that if the relationship leads to marriage you are totally fine about being a traditional woman who does the house chores and spends more time in the kitchen while he reads the newspaper or watches tv, right? I mean, it’s part of traditions too.

I’m totally with you. Women’s lib and equality seems to only go as far as women want it to.

Suggest we can’t earn as much as you and there’s an outrage, suggest a woman proposes marriage and there’s even more an outrage. It’s so conditional. I’m a woman and even I’m confused!

[K-Luv]

Originally Posted by Trimac20

a) ask a man out on a proper date?

> 75% Many women are now realizing that if they wait for the [certain] man to ask them out, it may never happen. Times are changing and many women under 45, perhaps 50 are not afraid to go after what they want.

Originally Posted by Trimac20

b) propose to their fiance?

< 20% Despite women becoming more aggressive in pursuing relationships, many still desire to have the man propose.

Originally Posted by Trimac20

c) be comfortable earning more than their SO?

> 80% I know a few women who are upset they can no longer be a homemaker, but I have never met one that actually wanted to earn less than their man.

But, some may feel uncomfortable about it and hide their true wage from their SO.

Originally Posted by Trimac20

d) be happy to now and then do the 'male' jobs around the house like fixing stuff if they need doing (i.e. replacing a lightbulb without calling for her man).

< 30% I think most would be happy to do something every now and then, but I think it largely depends on their skill set.

I know a few [heterosexual] women that would insist on being the one to build the new deck, put up siding, etc. and would be dammed if any "man" tries to tell them otherwise, but I know more who simply wouldn't want to do so mainly because they would rather call in a professional in order to make sure the job got done right.

Now, of course I am not talking about changing a light bulb. That just seems a little chauvinistic, doesn't it?

[seeniorita]

Men have penises and Women have vaginas. We are different for a reason or else we would all be one gender.

THE END!