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Understand, most girls grew up on fairy tales and disney (possibly why so many are looking for "prince charming"). I believe it is because of this that they expect the man to pay for everything (up front anyways). Also... because guys seem to think that because women hint (and often very very subtly) that we are not dense. Guess what? If you like us, tell us! We are not going to notice everything you do. But you tell a girl- and she goes home and thinks about you all that night (and who am I kidding? likely she thinks about it everyday for the next three days, analyzing it from every angle)- despite what she may have said or how she reacted when you told her. We are not mind readers and although guys get a lot of bad rep for being "dense" women are just as bad at times! Especially if the guy is nice- you may be showing us you like us and we'll be thinking "oh, how nice. This guy is such a nice guy" and not think anything beyond it. You don't have to stop being nice, but you should show interest by treating the girl different than you would treat other girls! (Ex: if you take a female friend out to dinner and pay for it, fine. If you do this three, four, five times, and don't do anything else, the girl may just think you are an all around nice guy. Bring a single flower and present it to her; suggest a starlit walk; give her stuffed animal, bring her lunch at work...something - what may be obvious to other people may not be obvious to the people seeking the relationship- and that is who it needs to be clearest to.
I went on a date where the guy expected me to pay-despite the fact that he had asked! This was a huge turnoff for me and when asked out for a second date, I refused. Generally speaking, you can usually tell when you are attracted to a person or not. Don't date someone just to date them or be with someone- date them because you are attracted to them and you think there is the possibility of something more. And guys- girls are still looking for that prince charming who will sweep them off of their feet- always expect that you will pay for the date, but also be aware you can do something that costs little to nothing as well and the girls who are NOT golddiggers will appreciate it more! (picnics, stargazing, walks in the park- I recommend bringing bread to feed the ducks if there's a lake- girls LOVE animals!, throw a frisbee in the park, go for a bikeride, etc) Some girls are gold diggers (*ahem...a certain sister of mine for instance- thus I know exactly what they hate) and it's also good to know up front who they are to avoid them, particularly if you are looking for a nice gal!
I think you may be a genius. Seriously, this is some of the best and most even handed advice I've seen on this forum. Keep posting
I'm glad to see some of the more positive women on this thread instead of the man-haters that are so prevalent (I admit, on a bad day I get pretty bitter myself)
There is A LOT of risks for a man in dating, besides the obvious. Rejection is the most obvious one, not only the rejection itself but how it's done. Many, many women get their rocks off by trying to bring a man down. Yes, confidence helps deal with that, but we are all human.
The money thing. Yes, I'm a professional and I make good money. I also have children to feed, and I'm not some deadbeat that would rather spend that dough on chicks. I make a lot of money, and have a lot of bills to pay. IF I KNEW a lady was a great catch, I wouldn't mind spending a bunch of money on a date, but let's face it....... most women I meet are NOT going to be the one for me.
Then the ultimate risk.... there are a lot of straight up psycho women out there. Drama is the most common risk... having this woman spread ugly lies around about me because I realized she wasn't the one. A baseball bat through your window is not unheard of. Like I said, I have kids, I have no room for the plethura of narcistic women in today's world.
I liked your advice plover, it's actually feasible. There are a lot of great women out there too, and the great ones, that like me the way I am, probably aren't going to care if I show them a good time (anywhere) as opposed to taking them to the new hip restaurant in the bohemium side of town.
I'm glad to see some of the more positive women on this thread instead of the man-haters that are so prevalent (I admit, on a bad day I get pretty bitter myself)
There is A LOT of risks for a man in dating, besides the obvious. Rejection is the most obvious one, not only the rejection itself but how it's done. Many, many women get their rocks off by trying to bring a man down. Yes, confidence helps deal with that, but we are all human.
The money thing. Yes, I'm a professional and I make good money. I also have children to feed, and I'm not some deadbeat that would rather spend that dough on chicks. I make a lot of money, and have a lot of bills to pay. IF I KNEW a lady was a great catch, I wouldn't mind spending a bunch of money on a date, but let's face it....... most women I meet are NOT going to be the one for me.
Then the ultimate risk.... there are a lot of straight up psycho women out there. Drama is the most common risk... having this woman spread ugly lies around about me because I realized she wasn't the one. A baseball bat through your window is not unheard of. Like I said, I have kids, I have no room for the plethura of narcistic women in today's world.
I liked your advice plover, it's actually feasible. There are a lot of great women out there too, and the great ones, that like me the way I am, probably aren't going to care if I show them a good time (anywhere) as opposed to taking them to the new hip restaurant in the bohemium side of town.
Every person gets bitter about things once in a while... we're all human and nobody is perfect (especially those little narcissistic girls with their noses in the air- I love my sister, but can you tell she gets a ton of flack from me?). And although it may feel like many women hate men, I think most are just jaded because, as the original poster stated, they go for the lesser educated, cocky, arrogant guys who end up treating them like dirt (all girls will date at least a handful of this kind of guy- give the girls some slack when they gripe about men- and then point out that you are not like that). However, jaded women need to learn on their part how to not be bitter- and accept it, learn from it, and move on. Because the way I see it, you can be bitter (so unattractive ladies!) or you can grow stronger because you learned something from it. After "dating" the first mechanic, I learned not to drink around my dates- and always watch my drink when I did. I'm not bitter about it, but I also know what to look for now and to be aware of my surroundings.
And quite frankly guys, if a woman or any other partner wants to bring you down, full out embarrass you when they reject you, lead you on, or use you in any way- say goodbye to that person as fast as you can! Every good person is entitled to a good partner- one who will make them want to improve themselves for the sake of improvement- and NOT someone who brings them down.
And just because someone is "great catch" does not mean you should go spend a ton right away- make sure they are an all-around great catch first- looks, personality, intelligence, common sense, etc. I realized my boyfriend was an awesome guy when he flew out from london (where he was working) to help me over labor day weekend when I severly sprained my ankle on my birthday weekend (for future reference: don't text message and walk down tiled stairs in flip flops- NOT a good idea!) and then took me up to the mountains to a lake shore and surprised me with a slice of birthday cake and candles! You don't need to spend a ton of money to show a woman that you are a great person/you're interested! (although I will conceded- that last minute plane ticket did cost more than I would have liked!) If you have kids, women are going to prefer that you save the money and feed your kids... it shows you care about the people closest to you!
As for your "ultimate" risk jefetio- I admit I was chuckling- most women are certifiably insane for one week every month - but they also laugh about it (um, after the fact). Bf says he knows automatically- because everything makes me cry- good, bad, funny, sad. lol. (my mother always joked...pms stands for "possible murder suspect" ) And I understand that women have their psycho moments, but please be aware that men have some of their "pissy" moments as well (which interestingly enough, I've noted can last up to a week). While you guys are out there discussing how psychotic we women are, we are discussing how psychotic men are- my best friend's boyfriend got upset over a conversation and drove from denver to the coast of oregon nonstop through a blizzard in a tiny vw! (this was wackier than anything I've ever heard women do)...just saying...the risk of psycho-dater syndrome is taken by both sides.
As for your last remark jefetio- bohemian?! Really, save some gas money and stay on your side of town!
As for a general dating tip my dad said it best (everyday while I was teen ) : "you may like someone, be infatuated, think they are perfect, but they are still human and no human is perfect. You're "perfect" match is out there- not because they are perfect, but because they are compatible with you, your interests, and your personality. That person may not be 1 in 100, 1 in 1000, or even 1 in 10000, but you live in a city of 1 million and I guarantee that you will be compatible with probably 1 in every 100,000 people- you just have to be patient and not look so hard" (as for me, I liked to point out that if the city (including suburbs) had 1 million people, and HALF were straight or bisexual males, that would mean out of denver, there were exactly FIVE people out there that I was compatible with- as it turned out, I met my bf by chance- and he wasn't even from denver!) Just some food for thought...
Telling ugly lies about you to others is psycho?? You obviously didn't treat her right...if a gay dude treated me like dirt (which has happened) he can expect me to exaggerate his bad characteristics to others....
A baseball bat through your window is clearly psycho though.....
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jefetio
Then the ultimate risk.... there are a lot of straight up psycho women out there. Drama is the most common risk... having this woman spread ugly lies around about me because I realized she wasn't the one. A baseball bat through your window is not unheard of. Like I said, I have kids, I have no room for the plethura of narcistic women in today's world.
I liked your advice plover, it's actually feasible. There are a lot of great women out there too, and the great ones, that like me the way I am, probably aren't going to care if I show them a good time (anywhere) as opposed to taking them to the new hip restaurant in the bohemium side of town.
And although it may feel like many women hate men, I think most are just jaded because, as the original poster stated, they go for the lesser educated, cocky, arrogant guys who end up treating them like dirt (all girls will date at least a handful of this kind of guy- give the girls some slack when they gripe about men- and then point out that you are not like that).
Cocky and arrogant is hardly equal to less educated... As far as men-haters, they usually get together with misogynists, so you perfect ones have nothing to worry about. It's not contagious!
I know it can be frustrating, but never settle for less (not saying you should be unreasonable but you definitely want someone to possess similiar goals and ideals as you do). I definitely believe in the saying, "you attract what you are". What you want is rare in this day and age when it's so easy to get the milk for free. And there are lots of women who are looking for men such as yourself who want a serious relationship without all the games involved. Keep doing your thing and the right girl will come along.
My suggestion is to get involved with community activities, if you haven't already, as well as a place to worship (if you believe in that). You can meet a lot of great people this way.
That's where confidence comes in, a confident man isn't afraid of a little rejection, besides, as women we give out signals that will let a man know if we are interested or not, so before you even get to the rejection point, you should already have a feel as to whether a woman is likely to go out with you or not.
As for the money part, i think alot of that has to do with the age group we are talking about. If a guy is in his 20's, well yeah, maybe he doesnt have alot of money, and girls his age shouldn't necessarly be expecting really fancy dinners and stuff, but instead of Mc Donalds atleast be able to take a girl out to Applebees or something.
Now, if we are talking my age group, 40's, im sorry but, i've already done the i have no money can't take you to nice restaurant part. Don't get me wrong im not talking you need to take me to a $50 plate restaurant, but a nice $20 or so will do, and maybe some drinks.
But why do I have to spend any money on you? How about you come back to my place and share some homemade pasta and we'll watch a DVD on my 10" TV.
Cocky and arrogant is hardly equal to less educated... As far as men-haters, they usually get together with misogynists, so you perfect ones have nothing to worry about. It's not contagious!
This is true sierra, I just reread the post this morning and i guess I was a tad more tired than I thought when writing it! I meant for the original poster that many girls want someone (in the end anyways) who is well-educated - intelligence/common sense or both... and i think you hit the nail on the head...the men-haters are men-haters because they HAVE gotten together with the misogynists!
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Artsy, you're as low maintenance as butt-length black hair bleached and highlighted, sweetheart!
This was a huge turnoff for me and when asked out for a second date, I refused. Generally speaking, you can usually tell when you are attracted to a person or not. Don't date someone just to date them or be with someone- date them because you are attracted to them and you think there is the possibility of something more. And guys- girls are still looking for that prince charming who will sweep them off of their feet- always expect that you will pay for the date, but also be aware you can do something that costs little to nothing as well and the girls who are NOT golddiggers will appreciate it more! (picnics, stargazing, walks in the park- I recommend bringing bread to feed the ducks if there's a lake- girls LOVE animals!, throw a frisbee in the park, go for a bikeride, etc) Some girls are gold diggers (*ahem...a certain sister of mine for instance- thus I know exactly what they hate) and it's also good to know up front who they are to avoid them, particularly if you are looking for a nice gal!
