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I still don't specifically see where power and control fit in. Those are attributes I usually ascribe to despots, not someone's refusal to associate with a person.
Everything except the BEST, MOST INTIMATE relationships, whether we wish to admit it or not, involves some form of power struggle. The reason the best, most intimate relationships do not is because those are infused with trust and security, mutual and utterly reciprocal, whereby two people hold to the truth of their relationship for better or for worse. Knowing this allows them to feel secure in where/how they stand with one another, and relying on each other is EASY when you TRUST the other person. Ergo, games and bull$#!+ fall by the wayside.
Games, strategic moves, lies, etc. -- that's about power and control. Sometimes the control is of the self in the name of self-preservation, and sometimes it's about controlling the other person for whatever reason. It depends on the nature of the person making the move.
There's a reson for the phrase "social politics".
I think I am having a hard time understanding her motives because I have never heard or seen where the exchange of a phone number did not have some other connotation to it apart from potential romantic interest (however subtle). I have never had a man do that to me and none of my female friends have ever done that either. If she was truly seeking friendship only, why not just hang around our mutual friends instead? We would still see each other in the same context. Could she have been impatient?
When people are friendly to me, I am happy to return the favor. However when they start crossing the line into affectionate territory, I feel like I'm no longer allowed to pursue that endeavor. I start seeing the person as being selfish for throwing away the only thing I really have to offer them on a social level. It takes a lot for me to act social and I do it because I care about my friends. I do my very best to never send out signals that would imply romance or affection on my part yet I am still confronted with these enigmatic overtures.
You need to either stop pretending this is beyond you yet you must grasp it, or admit that it's utterly beyond you and let it go; one or the other, because either it IS completely beyond you and we're just not grasping where you're coming from OR you're being purposely obtuse for the sake of argument and stringing this along. It's been explained to you a dozen different ways that she was attracted POTENTIALLY in a way you were NOT. There's nothing WRONG with that, but behaving as though HER behaviour is utterly illogical and completely beyond fathom... No, it's not and that's been explained a dozen ways by a dozen people in perfectly reasonable, communicative terms.
I'm all for understanding when it comes to examining and exploring social moves, mores and constructs; but given this thread either A) I had it right with the reptilian reference, because you're behaving as though this girl is Not Of This Earth by way of having given you her phone number, or B) you're as thick as a brick, whether by nature or intent.
Why should I tolerate any potential romantic interest if I am incapable of comprehending romance?
You should not, although "tolerate" speaks volumes as your word of choice and utterly bleeds arrogance.
I have never heard of that phrase. If that is how the concepts of power and control are applied here, then I don't see how even those close relationships are spared. I have seen struggles like that in the happiest couples, one attempting to appease the other for some mistake or oversight or one bribing the other for some object or activity. To be honest I have never seen a case where those "games" cease to exist.
If what she did is somehow correct even though I expressed no romantic interest in her, then I doubt I will ever understand it. Would I be better off telling people how I really am up front? It is very difficult having to monitor myself and verify that I send out no signals when the occasional person seems to pay no mind and force the issue.
I am arrogant when it comes to this behavior. I make no apologies for that. I work very hard to be a good friend and I deserve to be respected in that manner. Again, maybe I would get more respect if I immediately told these people that I have no interest in calling/seeing them outside of that context.
I'm also confident that I am a human being. Unique perhaps, but still human.
I have never heard of that phrase. If that is how the concepts of power and control are applied here, then I don't see how even those close relationships are spared. I have seen struggles like that in the happiest couples, one attempting to appease the other for some mistake or oversight or one bribing the other for some object or activity. To be honest I have never seen a case where those "games" cease to exist.
If what she did is somehow correct even though I expressed no romantic interest in her, then I doubt I will ever understand it. Would I be better off telling people how I really am up front? It is very difficult having to monitor myself and verify that I send out no signals when the occasional person seems to pay no mind and force the issue.
I am arrogant when it comes to this behavior. I make no apologies for that. I work very hard to be a good friend and I deserve to be respected in that manner. Again, maybe I would get more respect if I immediately told these people that I have no interest in calling/seeing them outside of that context.
I'm also confident that I am a human being. Unique perhaps, but still human.
No, you should not have to "tell them up-front". Life is risk, and if they opt to pursue romance with you and find themselves disappointed, that's a risk they run and a gamble they make -- and ultimately, whatever disappointment they find is a consequence of their risk or gamble. NOT your responsibility.
UNLESS someone makes it clear they're interested -- in which case I'd say you have some small responsibility to save them the trouble by explaining that you have no romantic interest in them, sorry for the inconvenience, I hope we can still be friends but it's NOT gonna happen.
What the woman in question did was perfectly normal; however, it does not suit your paradigm and that's FINE. What has been explained to you was that while YOU may have seen yourself as expression no romantic interest, MANY people take "interest" to mean "potential". That, too, is normal, because we all have to start with SMALL signs unless someone is forward enough to provide a BIG one to light the way.
"Dude, she LIKES you!"
"Huh? No she doesn't..."
"Did you see her talk to ANYONE else at that party, all night long?"
"That doesn't mean she likes me."
Two potential scenarios here:
1. She liked him and showed it by sticking around him all evening, even if she never touched him, held his hand, SAID "W00T, homey, I is be diggin' on you", et cetera. Entirely feasible this was a display of interest on a low-level... but INTEREST, nevertheless.
2. Everyone else at that party was dull and stand-offish and she had SO little interest in THEM she went with the sole remaining option rather than merely departing.
I'll stop with the reptile jokes; but I DO think you should consider seeking Asperger's evaluation. Nothing wrong if you DO have it, not a thing; but it can help provide you with some insight and perspective to KNOW one way or another, better prepare you for social life and situations.
Also -- those close relationships DO escape that kind of drama.
I have a best friend, a guy whom I trust beyond all others. We've had our ups and downs and disagreements, but he would NEVER lie to me, not even if the truth was absolutely horrible. If he did something wrong and it would be to my detriment, or even MUTUAL detriment, he'd come clean in an instant, trust me to forgive him and cope with the situation and we'd move on. He wouldn't hold back until the last minute, wouldn't "change the facts" on me or rely on conversational technicalities or misleading word-play or misdirecting blame in order to achieve some kind of "superior victory" over me. It just wouldn't happen.
I trust him to tell me when I'm being an arse-hole, trust him to give me his two cents when he thinks I'm making a mistake, value his opinion BECAUSE I know he'd never, ever lie to me for anything, for any reason whether selfish OR "for my sake" because he knows the truth of a matter is the way to cope with the matter...
And because I trust him implicitely, I'm free to be precisely that way with him. No need to ever withhold information, no need to ever hide anything or approach anything surreptitiously. The trust is IMPLICITE and it goes both ways, so nothing need ever be hidden or held back.
They're exceedingly rare, but they happen.
Last edited by Urban Sasquatch; 11-16-2011 at 07:40 AM..
What I am really wondering is... how hard would it be to find a person like this? I'm pretty happy on my own, but I would like to show my friends that it is possible to find this type of person. Could it be done? It would be interesting to associate with someone that I could truly relate to.
Perhaps a person with a physical disability (maybe wheel chair bound) that would sadly kill any kind of sexual enjoyment. I could be wrong about this, but from what I understand apathy might be a consequence of some types of autism. If that is true than you might be able to find someone that fits your criteria.
You should be a Scientist, that only deals in facts and figures, so that you can ostracize yourself from the 'Real World', and never be bothered by connections... You missed your calling if your not one already.
Geeze, talk about off the mark myths.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tegota
I can relate to what you're saying. Spending an exhorbitant amount of time with most women is annoying to me. Although I get on very well with women, and am constantly hit on...people are always wanting to "set me up." I'm just not interested. Although I do like dating occassionally; and the physical thing.
LOL! You're too funny.
Quote:
Your best bet would be to find an ISTP female. They're rare. Only about 4 percent of the total population so I'd guess maybe 1 percent are female.
He said he was looking for someone intelligent, not a creature hailing from pseudoscience land.
If I were you I would be embarrassed to publicly announce who and what you are. To me you seem to be a freak of nature. I'm sorry I seem so harsh, I don't think I have even been since i have been a member of CD but You take the cake. A person without feelings is like a person walking among the dead.
How can you refrain from letting someone give you physical pleasure or even you yourself give yourself plea self pleasure. I don't understand this and I don't think I ever will. Have you even experienced a women's gently touch, a loving hug, a gentle kiss? If not try it, you just might like it, but your non-invadible personality type of not touching seems not likely.
So sad, good luck in your life, all you need like many have already said is a roommate!!!
No, you should not have to "tell them up-front". Life is risk, and if they opt to pursue romance with you and find themselves disappointed, that's a risk they run and a gamble they make -- and ultimately, whatever disappointment they find is a consequence of their risk or gamble. NOT your responsibility.
UNLESS someone makes it clear they're interested -- in which case I'd say you have some small responsibility to save them the trouble by explaining that you have no romantic interest in them, sorry for the inconvenience, I hope we can still be friends but it's NOT gonna happen.
What the woman in question did was perfectly normal; however, it does not suit your paradigm and that's FINE. What has been explained to you was that while YOU may have seen yourself as expression no romantic interest, MANY people take "interest" to mean "potential". That, too, is normal, because we all have to start with SMALL signs unless someone is forward enough to provide a BIG one to light the way.
"Dude, she LIKES you!"
"Huh? No she doesn't..."
"Did you see her talk to ANYONE else at that party, all night long?"
"That doesn't mean she likes me."
Two potential scenarios here:
1. She liked him and showed it by sticking around him all evening, even if she never touched him, held his hand, SAID "W00T, homey, I is be diggin' on you", et cetera. Entirely feasible this was a display of interest on a low-level... but INTEREST, nevertheless.
2. Everyone else at that party was dull and stand-offish and she had SO little interest in THEM she went with the sole remaining option rather than merely departing.
I'll stop with the reptile jokes; but I DO think you should consider seeking Asperger's evaluation. Nothing wrong if you DO have it, not a thing; but it can help provide you with some insight and perspective to KNOW one way or another, better prepare you for social life and situations.
Also -- those close relationships DO escape that kind of drama.
I have a best friend, a guy whom I trust beyond all others. We've had our ups and downs and disagreements, but he would NEVER lie to me, not even if the truth was absolutely horrible. I trust him to tell me when I'm being an arse-hole, trust him to give me his two cents when he thinks I'm making a mistake, value his opinion BECAUSE I know he'd never, ever lie to me for anything, for any reason whether selfish OR "for my sake" because he knows the truth of a matter is the way to cope with the matter...
And because I trust him implicitely, I'm free to be precisely that way with him. No need to ever withhold information, no need to ever hide anything or approach anything surreptitiously. The trust is IMPLICITE and it goes both ways, so nothing need ever be hidden or held back.
They're exceedingly rare, but they happen.
This is very helpful.
It seems that it would be prudent to hold off on attributing any motivations to a person until they explicitly inform me of their intentions. That would probably present me with better opportunities to make friends without dismissing anyone. I think it may also be in my best interest to be a bit more cautious and distant to a new woman that is introduced to me. Not in an impolite way, just as a means of avoiding any erroneous suggestions.
A tad off-topic: where would I go to get an Aspberger's test? Is this something that would be potentially covered by insurance?
If I were you I would be embarrassed to publicly announce who and what you are. To me you seem to be a freak of nature. I'm sorry I seem so harsh, I don't think I have even been since i have been a member of CD but You take the cake. A person without feelings is like a person walking among the dead.
How can you refrain from letting someone give you physical pleasure or even you yourself give yourself plea self pleasure. I don't understand this and I don't think I ever will. Have you even experienced a women's gently touch, a loving hug, a gentle kiss? If not try it, you just might like it, but your non-invadible personality type of not touching seems not likely.
So sad, good luck in your life, all you need like many have already said is a roommate!!!
What is embarrassing about not needing romantic affection?
I do have feelings. I truly do. They're just managed better and more tightly controlled.
For the record, I did have one "encounter" where I decided to just go with the flow and see what the fuss was all about. It was a situation at a bar without my friends around and I somehow attracted a Pharmacy student to my corner. I couldn't understand what motivated someone to attempt to touch me in those ways. Although I tried to play along, I could not work up the interest that seemed to be growing on the other party's side. I wasn't repulsed, but I was confused and a little annoyed... like being asked to babysit some overactive child.
My distaste for affection isn't based on presumption, it's based on experience. I don't understand it and I don't desire it.
The best I can do is treat people like I treat my friends. So far that philosophy hasn't failed me.
As far as the type of woman that I could see myself with... well, I would prefer to spend time with someone that is like me and shares my perception. Emotional apathy isn't necessarily the same as having no emotion.
A tad off-topic: where would I go to get an Aspberger's test? Is this something that would be potentially covered by insurance?
Next time you're at the doctor for ANY reason, even so much as a sniffle, ask them. Tell them you have concerns, and MENTION openly that you are a poor boy too (pa-rum-pa-pum-pum) and would like to know whether there's any way to move this toward being covered by insurance.
Doctors work with insurance rules all the time; they should be able to give you some insight on whether or not it can be covered by insurance and to what degree.
Beyond that, it's up to your insurance coverage thru work/school. Human Resources should be able to help you if it's work, and as a "mental health" matter they're bound by law to keep it strictly confidential, BIG trouble should they not do so.
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