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Old 03-06-2012, 06:09 AM
 
Location: Corydon, IN
3,688 posts, read 5,014,468 times
Reputation: 7588

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I haven't read any of this except the question itself, which seems relatively obvious to me.


As with all things, there are pros and cons to dating. When I say that I mean from ALL sides and perspectives. Sometimes people are so focused on putting that best foot forward they make doormats of themselves, eager to please, eager to smooth the way -- all in the silent hope that the other person feels as strongly as they for the relationship prospect. They don't mean to be a doormat; the role happens gradually because at first they forgive little things, slip-ups. That's normal, what any mature person would do. Only the other person learns they can get away with stuff, and before Mrs/Mr Nice knows what's happening, they've been shunted into a secondary role.

Other times people are so focused (nearly typo'd "fucosed" which, in a way, would be more appropriate) on what they're going to get out of a relationship they become the kind of person I refer to as a taker. It's all about them, your transgressions matter, while theirs merely need to be understood; they explain that your slights have a profound effect, while you need to "just get over it". Their time is more valuable than yours and in this case Mrs/Mr Nice learn the hard way that they are NOT a priority.

Now, that may seem like I'm heading off in a different direction, but it's a little overview of how these kinds of things tend to progress.

And they start where THIS discussion is important: Beginnings.


If a man OR woman is dating someone with children (we tend to think of it as single guy/familial woman, but it really applies regardless of gender and role) then the real question they need to ask THEMSELF right up front is whether or not they see this potentially going anywhere.

If they see it as "dating", and they WANT to continue, then the "help" required of them really boils down to some pretty simple and straightforward stuff:

- Be aware that he/she has dependents. This means there is a demand on the other party's TIME and FINANCES.

When it comes to time, they may not be at your dating beck and call; by the same token communication is essential because RESPECT is a two-way street. Just as you need to be aware of and make concessions for their time and responsibilities, learning how to adjust fire and "bend like the reed" as situations shift through various permutations -- so THEY need to be responsible with regard to you:

- Making sure you're kept aware of situations
- SHARING the responsibility for coming up with alternative options

When it comes to money, then things change as the relationship itself changes.

At first you are TWO people dating; two responsible adults, independent of one another save for this mutual choice to cross paths. YOU are no more responsible for THEM than am I, sitting here typing this.

Who did the asking? Who arranged this? What are the circumstances? ALL of this stuff falls into other arenas with regard to dating. That includes finances.


IF the relationship progresses, then it all depends on HOW, and on WHAT EXPECTATIONS you have of it, how you view it. Is it dating? Is it casual? Are you two getting serious?


Presuming you're getting serious, then your responsibilities toward the child-rearing partner DO increase somewhat. You now KNOW the situation financially -- with regard to dating. You know what is generally affordable, the kinds of places you both like to attend, etc.

Financial responsibility is still shared, but CAN work on a bit of a barter system. Using the single-man, familial woman scenario set up by the question itself, dinners IN are as viable an option as him taking her out. All of this is with the presumption that his finances are a bit more fluid than hers (assumed, per the question). You are both ADULTS and both responsible for seeking financially viable alternatives.

Again, this is with regard to DATING and the ACT of dating. Outings, innings (), ideas whether splurging or compromising or minimizing.


But then...

Things are getting serious. I ASSUME this, because if I go back and read the first post and this guy is just DATING this woman and looking to see whether he needs to support her, then what he needs is his arse kicked higher than his head in order to wake him the hell up.


Whether a guy should help the woman he's seeing out financially REALLY comes down to whether or not they're serious enough this relationship has a solid future (even intended), and it should be DISCUSSED.

Period.

Bottom line: Don't expect a ton of her if you know she's under financial constraints -- it's selfish and ungentlemanly. Be willing to help -- within limits, realistic limits. DATING limits.

Finances are a very real part of every relationship; and every aspect of every relationship is a SHARED responsibility.

BUT don't feel you need to be the "man of the house" -- because you're NOT, and the only thing you stand to gain thinking that way, UNTIL such time as it's REAL and not just a THOUGHT, is a depleted bank account if this relationship goes sour.

 
Old 03-06-2012, 06:10 AM
 
4,253 posts, read 9,454,385 times
Reputation: 5141
Seems that the OP is from another culture. When I think back to the (Eastern) European and Asian cultures, what she is suggesting is common there. She must be still operating on those norms, - or she may be writing from there, and doesn't know why all Americans are jumping on her.
 
Old 03-06-2012, 06:11 AM
 
Location: Corydon, IN
3,688 posts, read 5,014,468 times
Reputation: 7588
Quote:
Originally Posted by beiyang View Post
I'd like everyone's opinion, but mainly this question is for any single women with kids, and single men who might date women who have kids.

Here's my feeling on it. Call me old fashioned, but if a man makes the decision to exclusively date a woman who has 1 or more children, he has a moral OBLIGATION to help provide for her and her children.
She is making a sacrifice in giving him attention while she's already busy with her kids, so, him helping her with her expenses is the LEAST he can do. I feel he OWES it to her, if he is going to make good relationship material for her.

Thanks in advance for your feelings and thoughts on this!

And now, having gone back to read that first post...

Beiyang, come here....

Now, turn around...

Look! -- there on the floor! It's a nickel! You should pick it up!
 
Old 03-06-2012, 06:11 AM
 
Location: TX
6,486 posts, read 6,390,223 times
Reputation: 2628
Quote:
Originally Posted by zentropa View Post
I am so sick of the stereotype that single/divorced moms are pathetic paupers who need a man to take care of them. Most of us are doing just fine, thanks.
I really don't think most "knights in shining armor" are seeing it that way. In fact, I'm not even convinced they are truly more concerned for the mother than they are themselves. It's just what they say because men have trouble acknowledging/expressing their own vices. There are at least two explanations more likely to be true:

1. The man just wants to contribute... to SOMETHING. Most of us have that need within us to be productive, and oftentimes in a different way than we usually are. The same way a man doesn't hold the door for a lady because he thinks she can't open it herself, a man doesn't offer to pitch in financially to aid the mother because he thinks she needs it. He does it because it makes him feel better.

2. The man wants to feel like he belongs. I think it's awkward for most men to be in that situation, seeing a mother and child (a family) and then there's... him. Just him. Even if he talks and plays with the child, he won't feel like he belongs so much as a visiting entertainer. At least by providing financially in some way (even if he's just buying toys), he knows that that part of him will stay there even when he leaves. I mean, unless he's an artist of some kind, there aren't many other options.

Both points come into play in this highly condensed story I have to tell:

I've never dated a woman with kids, but I came close once. We had been flirting back and forth for a while when she asked me to help her build a toddler bed for her daughter. I went to her house and, though the conversation was great, I didn't feel comfortable until the bed was built. Instantly afterward, I felt like I belonged. I also felt "like a real man" because I had fixed something for a mother and her child
 
Old 03-06-2012, 06:14 AM
 
Location: Corydon, IN
3,688 posts, read 5,014,468 times
Reputation: 7588
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vic 2.0 View Post
I really don't think most "knights in shining armor" are seeing it that way. In fact, I'm not even convinced they are truly more concerned for the mother than they are themselves. It's just what they say because men have trouble acknowledging/expressing their own vices. There are at least two explanations more likely to be true:

1. The man just wants to contribute... to SOMETHING. Most of us have that need within us to be productive, and oftentimes in a different way than we usually are. The same way a man doesn't hold the door for a lady because he thinks she can't open it herself, a man doesn't offer to pitch in financially to aid the mother because he thinks she needs it. He does it because it makes him feel better.

2. The man wants to feel like he belongs. I think it's awkward for most men to be in that situation, seeing a mother and child (a family) and then there's... him. Just him. Even if he talks and plays with the child, he won't feel like he belongs so much as a visiting entertainer. At least by providing financially in some way (even if he's just buying toys), he knows that that part of him will stay there even when he leaves. I mean, unless he's an artist of some kind, there aren't many other options.

Both points come into play in this highly condensed story I have to tell:

I've never dated a woman with kids, but I came close once. We had been flirting back and forth for a while when she asked me to help her build a toddler bed for her daughter. I went to her house and, though the conversation was great, I didn't feel comfortable until the bed was built. Instantly afterward, I felt like I belonged. I also felt "like a real man" because I had fixed something for a mother and her child

Good points! It's a thing which many find hard to fathom.
 
Old 03-06-2012, 06:17 AM
 
Location: TX
6,486 posts, read 6,390,223 times
Reputation: 2628
Quote:
Originally Posted by JanND View Post
discipline doesn't ever involve the boyfriend.....only Mom.
Sure it does. Eventually, gradually. If nothing else I've said convinces you (see post #80 for disclaimers), suppose the woman wants more children in the future. It would help to see firsthand how he handles children when his hands aren't tied. ANYONE can be a good father if all they have to do is say "Hey kiddo" and play catch every now and then. By not gradually giving the man some responsibility and authority, you are hiding one of the most important factors of why you should (or shouldn't) continue a relationship with him, or at best what needs improvement.
 
Old 03-06-2012, 06:26 AM
 
406 posts, read 770,929 times
Reputation: 519
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vic 2.0 View Post
Sure it does. Eventually, gradually. If nothing else I've said convinces you (see post #80 for disclaimers), suppose the woman wants more children in the future. It would help to see firsthand how he handles children when his hands aren't tied. ANYONE can be a good father if all they have to do is say "Hey kiddo" and play catch every now and then. By not gradually giving the man some responsibility and authority, you are hiding one of the most important factors of why you should (or shouldn't) continue a relationship with him, or at best what needs improvement.
I agree.
I am a woman who was dating (and now married to) a man with a child from a previous marriage. I always took into consideration that he was not my child; I knew his mother and father handled things differently from me. However, when we were in MY house, he was expected to obey MY rules. I was not going to let him come in and track mud through my house just because "that's not how my mom does it" or let him break my TV just because "my mom lets me do it" ......... in my house, he was going ot respect my wishes.
 
Old 03-06-2012, 06:34 AM
 
Location: Florida
2,289 posts, read 5,774,983 times
Reputation: 5281
Wow, just when I thought I'd heard everything.....talk about a sense of entitlement.

Ahh, lets see...I say NO.
 
Old 03-06-2012, 07:19 AM
 
Location: Grand Rapids, MI
840 posts, read 1,147,609 times
Reputation: 921
Quote:
Originally Posted by nuala View Post
Seems that the OP is from another culture. When I think back to the (Eastern) European and Asian cultures, what she is suggesting is common there. She must be still operating on those norms, - or she may be writing from there, and doesn't know why all Americans are jumping on her.
You might be onto something. I remember a coworker from mainland China once telling me that I should find myself a guy so that if I need things like financial help he could help me out a little. This is coming from a very independent woman who graduated from an excellent university in China, has a master and CPA license under her belt and worked and bought a condo in the US all by herself away from her husband who's living in a different continent. I would never think that anybody other than my own parents while I was still under the age of majority is obligated to "help me out" financially.
 
Old 03-06-2012, 07:45 AM
 
Location: Earth
3,814 posts, read 6,785,580 times
Reputation: 2590
Quote:
Originally Posted by zentropa View Post
I am so sick of the stereotype that single/divorced moms are pathetic paupers who need a man to take care of them. Most of us are doing just fine, thanks.

It is equally bad as the stereotype that every divorced women got rich by stealing some poor man's hard earned cash in a divorce settlement. The reality is miles from that fantasy.
Totally agree.

Don't forget about the one where a single mom is a sex crazed nymphomaniac.
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