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But that's only due to societal conventions. I mean, women don't approach men generally regardless of whether they are alone or in a pair or in a group. They are "supposed" to indicate to the man that they are interested and then wait for him to approach her. That probably is more the reason for her not "entering his claimed territory" than anything. I mean, it's very difficult for a man to approach a woman, but we force ourselves to do it.
Most women will sit near men they are interested, walk by them, all while making brief eye contact, preening her hair, being sure to laugh and smile a lot. It's not the same as walking up to a man... but that's the female equivalent. It lets him know she's interested. But some guys don't get that. Some women do walk up though--but often it's after doing some or all of that stuff first (but a lot move on to another man who does seem interested).
Most women will sit near men they are interested, walk by them, all while making brief eye contact, preening her hair, being sure to laugh and smile a lot. It's not the same as walking up to a man... but that's the female equivalent. It lets him know she's interested. But some guys don't get that. Some women do walk up though--but often it's after doing some or all of that stuff first (but a lot move on to another man who does seem interested).
Yeah, but that's women's fault. It'll often be one of two scenarios:
1) The woman is sending "signals," but she's sending them to everyone and when guys point that out, other women just say "women just like to flirt, it doesn't mean they're interested."
2) The woman sends what she thinks are signals, but it's something like "I blinked at him twice and he didn't make a move ...this guy is dense!"
Yeah, but that's women's fault. It'll often be one of two scenarios:
1) The woman is sending "signals," but she's sending them to everyone and when guys point that out, other women just say "women just like to flirt, it doesn't mean they're interested."
2) The woman sends what she thinks are signals, but it's something like "I blinked at him twice and he didn't make a move ...this guy is dense!"
This could be my problem too. I feel like we've gotten to a point though where I can solve it. Just don't worry if they seem interested or not and just go for it regardless and get an answer. Obviously wait until they've had time to know me, apparently flirting isn't one of my strengths and maybe I should just bypass that and go for asking them out without really knowing if they like me or not.
Yeah, but that's women's fault. It'll often be one of two scenarios:
1) The woman is sending "signals," but she's sending them to everyone and when guys point that out, other women just say "women just like to flirt, it doesn't mean they're interested."
2) The woman sends what she thinks are signals, but it's something like "I blinked at him twice and he didn't make a move ...this guy is dense!"
So sometimes it doesn't work... you are going to ingore all women and never approach or talk to them because sometimes you (or she) is wrong? I certainly don't ignore men who look at me and smile... sure, sometimes they weren't interested or I misunderstood, but who cares... move on. You aren't going to find someone if you don't even try.
I am not going to harp on the book I am reading anymore, but again I will say it helps you to understand flirting a little better and gives you ideas on what to look for. A lot of stuff people do they don't even do consciously... like widen their eyes by raiding their eyebrows, dilate pupils (that's hard to see though), or even run fingers though their own hair. People do blink more too... but it's not the cheesy purposeful blinking. That's just playing around, real interest is increased blinking that the owner of does on a subconscious level. And men do it too, not just women. Women are more noticed for it because we enhance our lashes on purpose... so it's more visible.
People do these things and don't know why... like other animals (you really think a peacock, for example, strutting around really "thinks" and what he's doing?) Some things are just instinct and believe it or not, humans have natural instinct too. We just let our big brains get in the way sometimes.
My own little observation, I really think the more intelligent a person is, the harder it is for them to use their instinct (and this comes to flirting and dating too). Not always for sure... but in general it just seems like brainier people have a harder time with it. Almost as if there is a reason for the cliche.
The one dominant theme you can take from 90% of these replies OP is that if you want to progress the relationship to beyond just common friendship, you need to treat her as a potential girlfriend and not as an ordinary friend. We all know how to make someone our friend more or less by being friendly, actively listening, and being there for them when they need it most. Certainly, a boyfriend should and does all these three things, but they also flirt a little and create a so called "sexual" vibe that separates them from every other dude. That "sexual" vibe I speak of is that little something extra that lets the other person know that you are interested in more than just friendship. It's that extra one second of eye contact after she finishes her thought. It's that rapport you develop with her when you make jokes and have a conversation that seems to be flowing effortlessly. It's not texting her 10 times a day, 30 seconds after she sends some cute text. It's a matter of having a life, being confident in yourself and your abilities, and letting her know that you are interested without being creepy or crossing any lines. The subtle cues we give off to a potential mate are what keeps us out of the "friend zone." It's also a matter of growing a pair, and asking her if she wants to do something together of Saturday evening, like grab a drink.
As lame as it sounds I have a hard time making the right moves to get the girls I'm attracted to interested in me or show it anyway. I'm friends with plenty of attractive women that I would be interested in dating but through my own lack of making moves it has rarely gone anywhere. Its not that I'm afraid, or bad looking, or shy, I just have no idea how to be romantic.
So really what I need to know is what level of moves are appropriate to get things started? Like should I make lots of eye contact and just keep the conversation light and talk about our mutual interests? Should I try touching her when I can? How do I let her know I'm interested and what should I look for from her? I know that's a lot but I'd like some input because I've become friends with almost every girl I've been interested in and although some have eventually progressed to more than that it was only after knowing them for years.
From my limited dating experience I can say once I'm in something I can play it by ear just fine so don't worry about that, its just the first month or so of knowing a person I feel I do a terrible job at showing I want to date them.
Also in aside I really don't need the PUA stuff, I've read some of it and honestly it just sounds corny and like I'm only going to get a certain kind of girl with it. It sounds like there may be some things I can learn from it but as a whole it sounds like its just not me and it over the top. Which by the way I noticed another member has a similar question to this but I figured it was a different enough concept and I was coming from a different place so I would make a new thread.
EDIT: This may sound bad but I feel like I get the consolation prize of being friends with a lot of these women. I have talked to some of them after knowing them for a while and they have said they would have wanted to date me but they didn't know I liked them etc. and now they are either in something, the spark is gone, or they realized it wouldn't work long term (which I feel like the last one may be that once I'm really close friends with someone, but not in a relationship with them, I treat them the same regardless of sex and that's probably a turn off).
Listen, the PUA stuff will set you back further, you don't need it.
What you need to do is make your intentions known. don't worry about having limited experience, everyone has to start somewhere. As your post says, the women didn't know you were feeling them, make a move you don't have anything to lose. If you don't make that move, you'll end up in the androgynous friend zone. Its all game, have fun playing it.
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