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OP didn't really mean "manipulate", he chose the wrong word, which he confirmed in an earlier post. He meant guys with no backbone, submissive type guys who have poor boundaries and no leadership capabilities. Unfortunately "manipulate" became the word of focus for many.
But isn't a person who has those qualities one that can be more easily manipulated when matched with the right(wrong) person?
But isn't a person who has those qualities one that can be more easily manipulated when matched with the right(wrong) person?
I guess they could be, but that's not an issue with me as I am not manipulative, but still turned off by guys like that. An example is a guy I dated for about 4 months a few years ago. He acted submissive to me in many ways, and held other people's opinions above his own.
Just a few of the things that turned me off:
Whenever I said "where do you want to go to dinner?", he'd ALWAYS say "where ever you want to go" or "whatever you want to do". He couldn't make a decision to save his life, and it put all the responsibility to plan EVERY date on my shoulders.
Once we went camping, and he had bought a cooler for us. He bought this huge cooler without wheels, and while we were struggling to carry the stupid thing, I asked why he didn't get one with wheels, and he said he was going to, but then he heard one of those Budweiser commercials, about "Wheeled Cooler Guy" and in the commercial it implied that only guys without friends to help carry it bought coolers with wheels, so he changed his mind. So here I am breaking my back lugging this cooler with him because a COMMERCIAL on the radio told him he'd be a loser if he bought one with wheels???
Later that night, he woke me in the tent to tell me it was raining, and that the tent was leaking. I, who had little camping experience, looked at him expectantly, to tell me what we should do, what the next step was....and waited and waited, until I finally realized he was waiting for ME to take charge and tell HIM what we should do.
He had a small business as a handyman, and when we first met, he told me he needed more business and was getting a magnetic sign made for his truck advertising himself with his number. Months later, as he whined about having no business, I asked him whatever happened with the sign. He told me a friend of his said a magnetic sign was lame, so he never got it made. He had no center, only did things or decided things based on what OTHER people told him he should do.
In the end, I lost all respect for him and didn't trust him in terms of being competent or able to be a man, rock, for me, and lost all physical attraction for him. I really wanted to like him, but it was impossible and I ended up breaking up with him as the thought of him touching me actually began to repulse me. That's what I thought of as I read the post, not so much "manipulable" if that's a word, but a Gumby man, who has no firm sense of self or center and bends to the will of others because he has no faith in himself or his decisions. IMO, the only type of woman who would want a man like this might be the kind who like to manipulate people (maybe BPD or otherwise disordered women), or want someone they can dominate. A normal, emotionally healthy girl though is going to lose respect and therefore interest in a guy like this sooner or later.
I guess they could be, but that's not an issue with me as I am not manipulative, but still turned off by guys like that. An example is a guy I dated for about 4 months a few years ago. He acted submissive to me in many ways, and held other people's opinions above his own.
Just a few of the things that turned me off:
Whenever I said "where do you want to go to dinner?", he'd ALWAYS say "where ever you want to go" or "whatever you want to do". He couldn't make a decision to save his life, and it put all the responsibility to plan EVERY date on my shoulders.
Once we went camping, and he had bought a cooler for us. He bought this huge cooler without wheels, and while we were struggling to carry the stupid thing, I asked why he didn't get one with wheels, and he said he was going to, but then he heard one of those Budweiser commercials, about "Wheeled Cooler Guy" and in the commercial it implied that only guys without friends to help carry it bought coolers with wheels, so he changed his mind. So here I am breaking my back lugging this cooler with him because a COMMERCIAL on the radio told him he'd be a loser if he bought one with wheels???
Later that night, he woke me in the tent to tell me it was raining, and that the tent was leaking. I, who had little camping experience, looked at him expectantly, to tell me what we should do, what the next step was....and waited and waited, until I finally realized he was waiting for ME to take charge and tell HIM what we should do.
He had a small business as a handyman, and when we first met, he told me he needed more business and was getting a magnetic sign made for his truck advertising himself with his number. Months later, as he whined about having no business, I asked him whatever happened with the sign. He told me a friend of his said a magnetic sign was lame, so he never got it made. He had no center, only did things or decided things based on what OTHER people told him what he should do.
In the end, I lost all respect for him and didn't trust him in terms of being competent or able to be a man, rock, for me, and lost all physical attraction for him. I really wanted to like him, but it was impossible and I ended up breaking up with him.
Poor girl. lol
He could have at least pretended he knew what to do.
Location: Went around the corner & now I'm lost!!!!
1,544 posts, read 3,601,814 times
Reputation: 1243
Quote:
Originally Posted by ocnjgirl
I guess they could be, but that's not an issue with me as I am not manipulative, but still turned off by guys like that. An example is a guy I dated for about 4 months a few years ago. He acted submissive to me in many ways, and held other people's opinions above his own.
Just a few of the things that turned me off:
Whenever I said "where do you want to go to dinner?", he'd ALWAYS say "where ever you want to go" or "whatever you want to do". He couldn't make a decision to save his life, and it put all the responsibility to plan EVERY date on my shoulders.
Once we went camping, and he had bought a cooler for us. He bought this huge cooler without wheels, and while we were struggling to carry the stupid thing, I asked why he didn't get one with wheels, and he said he was going to, but then he heard one of those Budweiser commercials, about "Wheeled Cooler Guy" and in the commercial it implied that only guys without friends to help carry it bought coolers with wheels, so he changed his mind. So here I am breaking my back lugging this cooler with him because a COMMERCIAL on the radio told him he'd be a loser if he bought one with wheels???
Later that night, he woke me in the tent to tell me it was raining, and that the tent was leaking. I, who had little camping experience, looked at him expectantly, to tell me what we should do, what the next step was....and waited and waited, until I finally realized he was waiting for ME to take charge and tell HIM what we should do.
He had a small business as a handyman, and when we first met, he told me he needed more business and was getting a magnetic sign made for his truck advertising himself with his number. Months later, as he whined about having no business, I asked him whatever happened with the sign. He told me a friend of his said a magnetic sign was lame, so he never got it made. He had no center, only did things or decided things based on what OTHER people told him he should do.
In the end, I lost all respect for him and didn't trust him in terms of being competent or able to be a man, rock, for me, and lost all physical attraction for him. I really wanted to like him, but it was impossible and I ended up breaking up with him as the thought of him touching me actually began to repulse me. That's what I thought of as I read the post, not so much "manipulable" if that's a word, but a Gumby man, who has no firm sense of self or center and bends to the will of others because he has no faith in himself or his decisions. IMO, the only type of woman who would want a man like this might be the kind who like to manipulate people (maybe BPD or otherwise disordered women), or want someone they can dominate. A normal, emotionally healthy girl though is going to lose respect and therefore interest in a guy like this sooner or later.
I thought I was the only one who felt this way after dating such a man...repulsed is actually how I felt!!! Dated this guy by the suggestion of a friend. He stated he hadn't eaten ALL day so we went to a restaurant. He turns and ask me what should he order OMG, YOU are the hungry one, order what you want!! Needless to say I called my friend up and told her to never introduce me to another weak man.
Location: Went around the corner & now I'm lost!!!!
1,544 posts, read 3,601,814 times
Reputation: 1243
Quote:
Originally Posted by cindersslipper
Almost all men can be manipulated by a pretty woman.
Respect has nothing to do with it. It just IS.
One of the few powers us women have in the world. How many women have manipulated their men to NOT kill the neighbours over the centuries?
Men are fairly gormless and violent by nature. They need a woman to think for them at times.
Huh, most men don't even listen to our advice or suggestions until a friend of his repeats the same suggestion and he acts as if that was a novel idea They act like their SO or wife is the enemy given into poor judgement But THAT would warrant the need to be a new thread in itself
I guess they could be, but that's not an issue with me as I am not manipulative, but still turned off by guys like that. An example is a guy I dated for about 4 months a few years ago. He acted submissive to me in many ways, and held other people's opinions above his own.
Just a few of the things that turned me off:
Whenever I said "where do you want to go to dinner?", he'd ALWAYS say "where ever you want to go" or "whatever you want to do". He couldn't make a decision to save his life, and it put all the responsibility to plan EVERY date on my shoulders.
Once we went camping, and he had bought a cooler for us. He bought this huge cooler without wheels, and while we were struggling to carry the stupid thing, I asked why he didn't get one with wheels, and he said he was going to, but then he heard one of those Budweiser commercials, about "Wheeled Cooler Guy" and in the commercial it implied that only guys without friends to help carry it bought coolers with wheels, so he changed his mind. So here I am breaking my back lugging this cooler with him because a COMMERCIAL on the radio told him he'd be a loser if he bought one with wheels???
Later that night, he woke me in the tent to tell me it was raining, and that the tent was leaking. I, who had little camping experience, looked at him expectantly, to tell me what we should do, what the next step was....and waited and waited, until I finally realized he was waiting for ME to take charge and tell HIM what we should do.
He had a small business as a handyman, and when we first met, he told me he needed more business and was getting a magnetic sign made for his truck advertising himself with his number. Months later, as he whined about having no business, I asked him whatever happened with the sign. He told me a friend of his said a magnetic sign was lame, so he never got it made. He had no center, only did things or decided things based on what OTHER people told him he should do.
In the end, I lost all respect for him and didn't trust him in terms of being competent or able to be a man, rock, for me, and lost all physical attraction for him. I really wanted to like him, but it was impossible and I ended up breaking up with him as the thought of him touching me actually began to repulse me. That's what I thought of as I read the post, not so much "manipulable" if that's a word, but a Gumby man, who has no firm sense of self or center and bends to the will of others because he has no faith in himself or his decisions. IMO, the only type of woman who would want a man like this might be the kind who like to manipulate people (maybe BPD or otherwise disordered women), or want someone they can dominate. A normal, emotionally healthy girl though is going to lose respect and therefore interest in a guy like this sooner or later.
Just a possible thought, but perhaps maybe his intention in being so acquiescent to your wishes was because he thought he could potentially please you or make you happy, not so much as him deliberately or consciously wanting to come across as weak in your presence? Have you ever considered that he may have simply assumed that he was being more flexible, democratic, or otherwise thoughtful, by seeking your chief and primary input as the female romantic partner, in many of the decisions you mentioned you had to make?
J/c for that matter, how does being a "rock" necessarily make one a "man", and why is this considered to be an inherently inviolable requirement in male romantic interests, for some women? Rather than a man having to be the unbreakable rock in a relationship, I guess I had always pictured it as ideally being both the man and the woman in a relationship, as both being the rocks, for each other? Just as women may need strength from a man, so do men need tender loving care, from women...so does it always have to really be an either-or, black-and-white proposition, where either a man is unilaterally the rock based on his perceived levels of strength and raw toughness, or he otherwise automatically fails the test that is presented? Pls remember that all of us, male and female alike, have our relative strengths and weaknesses. I guess the above is also one reason why I have always been rather skeptical of traditional/conventional gender norms, b/c they sometimes impose and encourage rather rigid stereotypes of "mandatory" gender conformity...and as some men may themselves simply wish to be thought of and come across as "softer" and "gentler", rather than as "tougher" and "harder"...
Some guys will do anything to get laid even give up their dignity and self-respect.
I have never seen a woman yet that I would give up my dignity and self respect for. I suspect a woman that is determined to manipulate her man, has no respect for him, herself, or anyone else.
Just a possible thought, but perhaps maybe his intention in being so acquiescent to your wishes was because he thought he could potentially please you or make you happy, not so much as him deliberately or consciously wanting to come across as weak in your presence? Have you ever considered that he may have simply assumed that he was being more flexible, democratic, or otherwise thoughtful, by seeking your chief and primary input as the female romantic partner, in many of the decisions you mentioned you had to make?
J/c for that matter, how does being a "rock" necessarily make one a "man", and why is this considered to be an inherently inviolable requirement in male romantic interests, for some women? Rather than a man having to be the unbreakable rock in a relationship, I guess I had always pictured it as ideally being both the man and the woman in a relationship, as both being the rocks, for each other? Just as women may need strength from a man, so do men need tender loving care, from women...so does it always have to really be an either-or, black-and-white proposition, where either a man is unilaterally the rock based on his perceived levels of strength and raw toughness, or he otherwise automatically fails the test that is presented? Pls remember that all of us, male and female alike, have our relative strengths and weaknesses. I guess the above is also one reason why I have always been rather skeptical of traditional/conventional gender norms, b/c they sometimes impose and encourage rather rigid stereotypes of "mandatory" gender conformity...and as some men may themselves simply wish to be thought of and come across as "softer" and "gentler", rather than as "tougher" and "harder"...
I'm sure HE thought he was being thoughtful, but in what world is it thoughtful to put all responsibility for every decision no matter how small on one person?
You are using logic, but feelings are not logical, they are just that, feelings. Women want to relax into the arms of a man who they feel safe with, and with a man like this, we feel like we have to be in charge and take care of them, and that turns attraction off for women (it often forces the woman into the role of nagging mommy rather than lover). How can I feel safe with a guy who lets himself go broke because some friend told him his sign idea was lame, who can't take care of even himself properly without someone telling him how he should do it??? How do I trust a man who is so easily influenced by the opinions of others?? Is the friend paying our bills? If he waits for me to tell him what to do in a leaking tent, how is he going to protect me in a hurricane??
Like I said I wanted to like this guy, I desperately tried to like this guy, but it is not something we choose on a conscious level. I didn't want my attraction to wane, it just did. You can say you dislike traditional gender roles, but they are based on biology, and 50 years of social change is not going to wipe out thousands of years of biologically based, hormone and chemical based reasons women are attracted to certain male traits and turned off by traits that come off as more "feminine". The yin balanced by the yang, the polarity of male/female energy, is what creates sexual tension and attraction.
P.S. it has nothing at all to do with "toughness", nor do I want some neanderthal controlling, cheating "alpha" man. How tough does one really need to be to make dinner plans or basic life decisions? My current guy is not "tough", he's a sweetie, but he is competent and confident in his decisions, and I feel safe with him. It really is not as black and white as you seem to feel; i.e. tough guy or marshmallow. Most women want a man who can be in charge and take the lead when the situation calls for it but also be kind and thoughtful.
1. Those that try manipulating as a form of testing boundries and to see what they can get away with.
2. People who are genuinely manipulative and instead of wanting to see what they can get away with, they are being manipulative to try and get away with things as they truly have poor morals and values.
All relationships have boundaries. Typically, at some point in the relationship those boundaries will get met or get pushed until one person puts their foot down.
In the sense of this thread title, I believe some women (men to, this is an example before you freak out) may push those boundaries in whatever way to see what kind of person they are dating. Is he going to be a pushover? Is he so scared to lose me that he won't put his foot down? Is he going to call me out? Will he put me in my place?
Not all women are like this, some more than others, some purposely, some not.
I put up with little and I'm the first person to speak my mind and discuss things. I have had girls do things to blatantly test my patience or personality and I have made them leave. Told them "ok if you're going to be like this you're leaving right now, no apologies, nothing, I want you to leave my house." Virtually every one of those times the girl has either called me when she got home wanting to come back, or got to her car, and came back and knocked. I wasn't a huge jerk, abusive, or anything. Just basically a "I don't play games and I'm way too much of an overthinker that you will slip things past me."
I can make my decisions but virtually all important decisions come via my girlfriends approval. Even regarding my own money I often ask for her suggestion. Which, in turn, is met with her response of "whatever you think is the best sweetie," or something like that. Last Friday leaving the gym we talked about going to Sushi, she couldn't make up her mind so I gave her about 15 seconds to choose before the Sushi exit or we would go the next night. She decided we should go and I could not have cared less either way, I was just happy she made a decision lol.
So many people are "let's go to dinner"... "Ok where?"... "Ummmm, I dunno...." and making decisions is like a battle haha.
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He had no center, only did things or decided things based on what OTHER people told him he should do.
But THAT would warrant the need to be a new thread in itself 
Have you ever considered that he may have simply assumed that he was being more flexible, democratic, or otherwise thoughtful, by seeking your chief and primary input as the female romantic partner, in many of the decisions you mentioned you had to make? 
