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Actually - he doesn't seem to think that people in relationships are exempt. He basically tells them to stop deluding themselves that their partners really like them just they way they are.
Well, I think there's a bit of interpretation there. I didn't get that at all. Only in the "be submissive" piece, which honestly probably doesn't belong in the article to begin with.
I especially wouldn't get that if, like in the post I quoted, the person is specifically telling you "they like you the way you are".
Well, I think there's a bit of interpretation there. I didn't get that at all. Only in the "be submissive" piece, which honestly probably doesn't belong in the article to begin with.
I especially wouldn't get that if, like in the post I quoted, the person is specifically telling you "they like you the way you are".
I would say the be intelligent thing doesn't belong there either because it's not something anyone has any control over (the list says "things a woman can do" after all).
But yeah, the submissive thing is about personality and it's, again, not something people can just change either. If you tend to be a follower-type (submissive) you just are. And if you tend to be a leader type, again you just are.
The only other thing I kind of have an issue with is the childfree thing because it's not something a person can change. I get it, men without children prefer women without children (and vice versa). But it's not like it's a choice if a woman already has kids. Maybe it's because it hits close home for me. I have a child... but it's not like I did anything "wrong." I was married, my ex came out as gay, we divorced. I can't change the past.
In those regards, where the author tells women to "change" something that's impossible to change or it means changing who she is/her personality, it comes across as hostile.
And I do have issue with the author saying if a man doesn't agree with him 100% than that man is settling. And if a woman doesn't meet every item on that list, any man who is with her and says he loves her really doesn't because he is settling for less than perfect. It's like the author thinks his opinion is the only valid and that all men think just like him instead of just acknowledging that his list has a broad appeal to most men, but every man is different and not every man cares about all items on that list.
Well, I think there's a bit of interpretation there. I didn't get that at all.
I especially wouldn't get that if, like in the post I quoted, the person is specifically telling you "they like you the way you are".
Really? I think that is exactly what the guy is saying - that it doesn't matter if your boyfriend tells you that he likes you just the way you are. I think he honestly believes that most men want every single item on that list - and if you don't fit that list to a tee - that your boyfriend wishes you did even if he tells you differently. I thought he made that pretty clear but you can interpret it differently. He also said that it's stupid to look for the perfect mate - but that you shouldn't delude yourself into thinking that you are the perfect mate because guys will settle for what they can get.
And for the record - I'm not interpreting it this way because I'm defensive or upset - that's just how it comes off to me. I also fit most of the items on that list - or I did when I met my husband. I'm a stay at home mom now but when we met, we were on tour together so I was obviously making my own money. I didn't cook well when we met - but we were on tour so it's not like we had a kitchen anyway. Now I cook pretty much everyday. And I didn't have kids then although I do now because we both wanted them and we are married. I've always had guy friends but I also have more women friends than guy friends. The only one I'd say I really don't fit is that I'm not submissive - but I do do a lot of things just to make my husband happy and my husband wouldn't want a really submissive wife. He likes that I can challenge him but that I don't go out of my way to do so. Then again - maybe he really wishes I was submissive and I'm just deluding myself!
And don't get me wrong - I'm not offended by this article and it didn't rile me up or anything. I think that there are some useful things on the list - but he does come off like a pompous a** and that might deter some women from taking it seriously (and I think A LOT of people who write blog lists come off like pompous a**es so it's not like I think this guy is the only one). I understand that some people do need a kick in the butt to realize they need to do something differently - but I'm not sure that this list would accomplish that.
1. Mostly-could be smaller, but for my enjoyment.
3.
5 - A little
7
8
12
13
The rest don't fit. lol
Really, it depends on the woman, and the type of man she wants. Some women will be the opposite of this list and still have tons of men. Some women will fit everything on the list, and have no man.
Im not sure I agree, but it all depends on one's priorities. If you're not getting any attention, your options are basically:
1) continue waiting
2) do something to change it
There's nothing wrong with 1), as long as they understand what the potential effect is...that they may end up waiting forever. If they're ok with that, then no problem.
However, if finding someone is a stronger priority, then the reality is that people will have to bend a bit. In my personal experience, this applies more to men than women because of a whole other argument/can of worms, but it stands to benefit both genders.
So no, nobody HAS to change anything. If you're happy with the way life is, then by all means, continue. If you're not, you can wait, or change.
I'm going to suspect that most of the people with responses similar to yours are getting enough attention that they don't need to change anything. In which case, no, of course you shouldn't. But not everybody is in that boat.
First, one would need to assess the reasons why they are not getting attention and perhaps other than keep in shape and having no income I seriously doubt a person can not find others that have no problem with such things as tattoos and piercings, cursing, pretty much any of those things listed. Unless you are perhaps an obese, tattooed, potty mouthed, unemployed, frigid, ignorant, culinary challenged, butch brood mare the list probably wont help.
I agree do something to change yourself meaning make yourself a better person overall, get in shape, improve your overall appearance as in dress nicer or different hair style, improve your self confidence, broaden your horizons, etc. I don't agree one should try to change who they are in order to please someone else's agenda.
I'm not sure where the sex references apply. If you're just looking for attention and dating possibilities sex should not even be a consideration at this point.
This is exactly the point that a lot of people here are still missing. You have a boyfriend, so unless he's expressed some sort of dissatisfaction with the relationship (which he obviously hasn't), then you can ignore the list altogether. It's not for you. It's for other people.
Did you miss the sarcastic part where he said he wouldn't want me to have to turn my life around 180 degrees?
Defined as... You're not anything that's on that list. (Funny guy)
I would say the be intelligent thing doesn't belong there either because it's not something anyone has any control over (the list says "things a woman can do" after all).
But yeah, the submissive thing is about personality and it's, again, not something people can just change either. If you tend to be a follower-type (submissive) you just are. And if you tend to be a leader type, again you just are.
Totally agree, on both points, but especially the intelligence part.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jillabean
The only other thing I kind of have an issue with is the childfree thing because it's not something a person can change. I get it, men without children prefer women without children (and vice versa). But it's not like it's a choice if a woman already has kids. Maybe it's because it hits close home for me. I have a child... but it's not like I did anything "wrong." I was married, my ex came out as gay, we divorced. I can't change the past.
In those regards, where the author tells women to "change" something that's impossible to change or it means changing who she is/her personality, it comes across as hostile.
While "hostile" isn't the word I'd use, I definitely agree and obviously have a different perspective than a woman reading it. It shouldn't be on the list at all because, as mentioned, there's nothing that can be done about it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jillabean
And I do have issue with the author saying if a man doesn't agree with him 100% than that man is settling. And if a woman doesn't meet every item on that list, any man who is with her and says he loves her really doesn't because he is settling for less than perfect. It's like the author thinks his opinion is the only valid and that all men think just like him instead of just acknowledging that his list has a broad appeal to most men, but every man is different and not every man cares about all items on that list.
Did he say that? I honestly missed it if he did.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dewdroplet76
Really? I think that is exactly what the guy is saying - that it doesn't matter if your boyfriend tells you that he likes you just the way you are. I think he honestly believes that most men want every single item on that list - and if you don't fit that list to a tee - that your boyfriend wishes you did even if he tells you differently. I thought he made that pretty clear but you can interpret it differently. He also said that it's stupid to look for the perfect mate - but that you shouldn't delude yourself into thinking that you are the perfect mate because guys will settle for what they can get.
And for the record - I'm not interpreting it this way because I'm defensive or upset - that's just how it comes off to me. I also fit most of the items on that list - or I did when I met my husband. I'm a stay at home mom now but when we met, we were on tour together so I was obviously making my own money. I didn't cook well when we met - but we were on tour so it's not like we had a kitchen anyway. Now I cook pretty much everyday. And I didn't have kids then although I do now because we both wanted them and we are married. I've always had guy friends but I also have more women friends than guy friends. The only one I'd say I really don't fit is that I'm not submissive - but I do do a lot of things just to make my husband happy and my husband wouldn't want a really submissive wife. He likes that I can challenge him but that I don't go out of my way to do so. Then again - maybe he really wishes I was submissive and I'm just deluding myself!
And don't get me wrong - I'm not offended by this article and it didn't rile me up or anything. I think that there are some useful things on the list - but he does come off like a pompous a** and that might deter some women from taking it seriously (and I think A LOT of people who write blog lists come off like pompous a**es so it's not like I think this guy is the only one). I understand that some people do need a kick in the butt to realize they need to do something differently - but I'm not sure that this list would accomplish that.
I would think that you're over-interpreting to see that, possibly because you want to? Of course, I'll just as easily admit that I could be doing the same. I don't think either one of us would be correct in trying to prove it one way or another, so I could just chalk it up to a difference of interpretation. He could be a total douchebag and I'm just missing it, you could be seeing something that isn't there, both, or neither.
I do, however, agree that lists don't make anybody do anything. Either we want to change or we don't.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2mares
First, one would need to assess the reasons why they are not getting attention and perhaps other than keep in shape and having no income I seriously doubt a person can not find others that have no problem with such things as tattoos and piercings, cursing, pretty much any of those things listed. Unless you are perhaps an obese, tattooed, potty mouthed, unemployed, frigid, ignorant, culinary challenged, butch brood mare the list probably wont help.
I agree do something to change yourself meaning make yourself a better person overall, get in shape, improve your overall appearance as in dress nicer or different hair style, improve your self confidence, broaden your horizons, etc. I don't agree one should try to change who they are in order to please someone else's agenda.
I'm not sure where the sex references apply. If you're just looking for attention and dating possibilities sex should not even be a consideration at this point.
It seems there's a few things that seem inappropriate for that, and similar reasons....because they're inapplicable or unable to be changed. But I feel that the few that are...would definitely help if somebody needed it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sydney123
Did you miss the sarcastic part where he said he wouldn't want me to have to turn my life around 180 degrees?
Defined as... You're not anything that's on that list. (Funny guy)
I don't think you understood my post. Whether you're anything on that list or not...the list doesn't apply to you. It's not for you. You've got a guy that likes you, so there's no need to "make yourself more attractive to men"...the title of the article.
He says it at the very end... that if a woman doesn't fit the list perfectly and has a man who loves her, it's only because he settled (implying that even if he says he likes you, he's really not happy with you):
From the article:
Quote:
My boyfriend loves me just the way I am.” “I don’t have XYZ, and I have lot of men chasing after me.” Good for you. Everybody settles in some aspect. Holding out for the partner that is perfect in every way is a fool’s errand. He has simply learned to accept your faults. Stop deluding yourself...
Overall, I think it's a good list that women can use if they are unsuccessful in love. But the way it's presented makes it a turn off (and sometimes insulting--even to women who have a boyfriend or husband) that a lot of women won't take seriously.
they forgot their disclaimer to women that: "you can be all these things and men may be attracted to you, but not necessarily ask you out or get involved with you as their girlfriend." "You can be all these things and still sit home on Saturday nights wondering why."
There is one of these lists for men, but I ain't posting it!
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